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Alex Cameron

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Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« on: October 09, 2013, 10:09:13 PM »
I came across GCA while looking for information on Philadelphia golf and was pleased to find a great collection of posts on golf in the area (though I should point out the the removal of trees seemed to creep into each thread around page 3). Common thinking about the quality of Philadelphia courses places Pine Valley and Merion at the top, followed by a grouping of courses including HVCC, Rolling Green, Cricket Club, Country Club, and several others.

I don't want to reopen the debate over which of these courses is "best," whatever that may mean. I'd like to instead throw out a single focused question: If you had a choice as to which one of these courses you would call home, which would you choose based on the golf alone? Which Philadelphia course is most rewarding and fun to play over and over again?

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 07:24:25 AM »
Merion East.  To me, it's the best golf course I've ever played, has a really good membership, promotes junior play, and is well located.

You can't go on just golf alone.  What good is a golf club where you can't get a game with people with whom you enjoy playing?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 07:31:25 AM »
I was going to say French Creek.  But after playing it again on Saturday it is clear that it is just too easy.  I mean, really, a guy in my group went eagle/birdie on 6 and 7.   ;)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 08:03:41 AM »
I was going to say French Creek.  But after playing it again on Saturday it is clear that it is just too easy.  I mean, really, a guy in my group went eagle/birdie on 6 and 7.   ;)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/

Oh wow, what a landscape for golf. Is this place ranked? I'm starting to realise why there is so much chat about golf in Philly now. Is it the best golf city in the world in terms of strength in depth combined with big guns?

FC tends to fly slightly under the proverbial radar with all the big time classic courses in the area.  

I love FC, even with a couple of long green to tee walks (3 to 4 and 15 to 16 in particular).  The two consecutive short par 4's (14 and 15) are just wonderful.  Although not all will share that view.  Some people will detest the 14th.

Is Philly the best golf city in the world?  I'm not touching that topic (don't want to derail this thread nor have I visited anywhere near enough other places in order to make an informed opinion) but I believe it is undeniable that Philly is blessed with some tremendous golf courses.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Philip Caccamise

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 09:17:42 AM »
I was going to say French Creek.  But after playing it again on Saturday it is clear that it is just too easy.  I mean, really, a guy in my group went eagle/birdie on 6 and 7.   ;)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/

Oh wow, what a landscape for golf. Is this place ranked? I'm starting to realise why there is so much chat about golf in Philly now. Is it the best golf city in the world in terms of strength in depth combined with big guns?

No, because the public golf offerings are just a step above terrible for a city of over 5 million people. But from a private course perspective... There isn't many better.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 09:29:38 AM »
I was going to say French Creek.  But after playing it again on Saturday it is clear that it is just too easy.  I mean, really, a guy in my group went eagle/birdie on 6 and 7.   ;)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/

Oh wow, what a landscape for golf. Is this place ranked? I'm starting to realise why there is so much chat about golf in Philly now. Is it the best golf city in the world in terms of strength in depth combined with big guns?

No, because the public golf offerings are just a step above terrible for a city of over 5 million people. But from a private course perspective... There isn't many better.

Matt Ward!  You legally changed your name.   ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 10:02:58 AM »
I think Philip is spot on, while a great city in regard to private clubs we are a bit short on good public facilities. Yes I know Cobbs is going to be rebuilt and Jersey has some good offerings but we do seem to have a big swing between private and public venues. It really is a tale of two cities.
Best town for golf in the world, St. Andrews. Where else can you play a legendary course, grab a beer and watch play well into the evening?
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

mike_malone

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 10:57:59 AM »
I would not want to lose golf balls on a regular basis so that throws out FC.
AKA Mayday

Alex Cameron

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 11:34:49 AM »
Yes I know Cobbs is going to be rebuilt...

What's the scoop on this? Whenever I'm over at Cobbs I hear various grand plans that are going to turn it into Philadelphia's version of Bethpage. In anything actually on the books?

JMEvensky

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 11:41:42 AM »

I'd like to instead throw out a single focused question: If you had a choice as to which one of these courses you would call home, which would you choose based on the golf alone? Which Philadelphia course is most rewarding and fun to play over and over again?


I've never played golf in Philadelphia,but isn't the answer Gulph Mills? At what other club could you spend quality time with the late,great TEP?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 11:46:21 AM »
Yes I know Cobbs is going to be rebuilt...

What's the scoop on this? Whenever I'm over at Cobbs I hear various grand plans that are going to turn it into Philadelphia's version of Bethpage. In anything actually on the books?

Easiest way to "catch up" on the Cobb's front Alex is look at the blog I keep, which I have been updating frequently lately with some neat old pictures:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/focc/Friends_of_Cobbs_Creek/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 04:39:36 PM »
Pay the daily fee at Lulu and invest the difference. 

You're welcome.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Rick Sides

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 05:27:46 PM »
Joe,
Does French Creek allow any outside play?  It looks beautiful.

mike_malone

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 05:27:55 PM »
Paxon Hollow with a 5 iron off the tee would great for routine play
AKA Mayday

Tom ORourke

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 05:39:11 PM »
Tough question. Merion and Pine Valley are my favorite courses but there are a few that would be great for everyday play. One that would be an obvious choice is Aronimink. But I have a real affinity for Waynesborough. I think you get to hit a variety of shots, the greens are challenging, and the course is playable. I could play there every day and have a great time. You do not get beat up by life or death forced carries, no 20 foot deep bunkers, no 90 degree doglegs, just a series of good holes that reward good shots and punish bad shots or getting out of position. The greens are difficult if you are not accurate with both distance and direction. If you can play well there you can play well almost anywhere. Some other similar courses on my list, that not all might agree with, are Llanerch, Whitford, and Kennett Square. These are courses that are not in the national spotlight, although Llanerch was way back around 1960, but are fun to play. You do not need 7,400 yards to be challenged and have fun.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 07:42:41 PM »
Send me an IM if you're interested in playing or seeing French Creek.

Hanse did a helluva job out there  - I never get tired of it.

Joe's right - eagle/birdie on 6/7 show how easy it is!

BTW - The membership is very, very low key and friendly.  Good junior program, no tee times.

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 09:42:56 PM »
St Davids won't wear you out or bore you either
Philadelphia Country is the best Flynn if tough is not your first measure of good
Second French Creek and it's neighbor Stonewall North
Biderman is pretty playable, not that easy a walk
Gulph Mills is the members club
Tavistock has a good mix of holes with par protected at the green


My measure of good is a good number of 1/2 par holes with an equal mix
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 09:44:49 PM »
Send me an IM if you're interested in playing or seeing French Creek.

Hanse did a helluva job out there  - I never get tired of it.

Joe's right - eagle/birdie on 6/7 show how easy it is!

BTW - The membership is very, very low key and friendly.  Good junior program, no tee times.

Please tell us you went 3, 3, 3, 3
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Chris Mavros

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 10:06:57 PM »
I was going to say French Creek.  But after playing it again on Saturday it is clear that it is just too easy.  I mean, really, a guy in my group went eagle/birdie on 6 and 7.   ;)

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/

Oh wow, what a landscape for golf. Is this place ranked? I'm starting to realise why there is so much chat about golf in Philly now. Is it the best golf city in the world in terms of strength in depth combined with big guns?

No, because the public golf offerings are just a step above terrible for a city of over 5 million people. But from a private course perspective... There isn't many better.

You're correct for Philadelphia proper (as of now), but even going out on a 30 minute radius brings you a ton of great public courses.  45 minutes to an hour out is exponentially more.  

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2013, 08:23:58 AM »
Mike  -- Actually 4/3/3/3.  I hit my tee shot 1 yard short on the quarry hole and had to hit a little shot up to the green left handed - two putted for a bogie.

Chris - what publics do you like in that location?

Bill Crane

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2013, 01:25:45 PM »
I have thought about starting a thread similar to this in the past.  It’s really an academic exercise if the framework of courses is Merion, PV and Aronimink.   Who would not want to play Merion all the time?? Realistically, most of us could not join those clubs even if we could afford to.

People always ask me what my favorite golf course is and I always say our home club Springdale GC  is great to play on regular basis even though I love Merion, PV is an amazing experience and I also cherish golf at Kittansett, Chechessee Creek, Somerset Hills, Royal Dornoch etc.  etc.

Springdale is a great course to play on a regular basis – we have a walking culture and you can sling your bag or grab a trolley whenever you want and play a nine or a few holes.  The William Flynn layout is great, compact, strategic and rolls nicely while still being pretty easy to walk, and at 6,400 yards is long enough to test all your shots without beating you up.  And we have several half – par style holes.  The greens are special, interesting, tight, mostly small with quite a bit of break, and some interesting features including the bunkering.  Missing greens wide can be really tough on the scorecard.  The site is beautiful - abutting portions of Princeton University, Princeton Theological Seminary, the Institute for Advanced Studies and P U Graduate college.  It looks downright British. The symbol of the club is the Cleveland Tower that looms over the course, and provides an aiming focal point on several holes, . named after PU Trustee and US President Grover Cleveland.

Come on a weekend and I may be able to have someone play the carillon bells in Cleveland Tower.  All sorts of tunes will resonate over the course, classical, pop, I even played one Halloween Sunday and out came the  theme from The Addams Family !

The club is traditional yet unpretentious.  Hats off inside, no cargo pants, but we are not obsessive about rules compared to many clubs.  Our  new clubhouse is comfortable enough without being stuffy, and the view of the course and Tower from the grill room and porch is the best in town.

Enough bragging, I won’t even get into our history with connections to Hugh Wilson, Woodrow Wilson, Bill Campbell, or tell you which of our stone bridges has an asteroid rock.   I will tell you the course is worth getting to know, and the membership is special.

So, if the list is like Mike Trenham’s and includes clubs like Tavistock,  Gulph Mills, St Davids and Springdale that rings true to me.

Wm Flynnfan
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 01:30:50 PM by Bill Crane »
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Dan Boerger

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2013, 02:52:57 PM »
Bill - Very well put! Clubs sure like to have members as supportive and passionate as you.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2013, 04:49:13 PM »
Bill - nicely stated :)

You said, "The club is traditional yet unpretentious.  Hats off inside, no cargo pants, but we are not obsessive about rules compared to many clubs.  Our  new clubhouse is comfortable enough without being stuffy, and the view of the course and Tower from the grill room and porch is the best in town. "  

The same thing goes for my place, and other clubs I've visited that I really enjoy.  Perhaps it's a key success factor?!

Chris Mavros

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2013, 10:03:05 PM »

Chris - what publics do you like in that location?

Hi Dan:

I enjoy the below courses and almost all are 30 - 45 minutes driving:

Glen Mills
LuLu
Jeffersonville
White Clay Creek
Lederach
Scotland Run
Wyncote  ( a little longer...)
Bella Vista
Broad Run
Deerfield
Raven's Claw
Inniscrone ( this one too)
Running Deer
Downingtown GC
Five Ponds
Paxon Hollow
Deer Run

Some others that people enjoy, but I wouldn't include on my list:

Center Square
Turtle Creek
Makefield Highlands
Pennsauken
Riverwinds
Rock Manor

Although I'm enjoying Phoenixville CC now, before I joined I always felt the Philadelphia area had a great selection of public courses, especially when I compared it to where I grew up (Pasadena, CA), where there are only a hand full.  





Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Which Philadelphia course is best for routine play?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2013, 10:11:45 PM »
Broad Run, really??

I am sorry but I just don't get  that course. Lay up tee shots, giant drop par three, impossible to walk.  Oh well.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

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