Presidents' Cup Format vs. Ryder Cup Format

[Jim Hoak]

This may have been discussed previously, but if so I missed it.
Which format do you like better?  Which is the better test of golf competition?
Personally, I find the Presidents' Cup format, with an extra day of golf, to be too drawn out and boring.  The first two days are 6 matches of fourball and then 6 foursomes.  Then Sat. is 5 fourballs in the a.m. and 5 foursomes in the afternoon--an improvement.  The Ryder Cup just does 4 foursomes and 4 fourballs on the first two days.  Then both formats do 12 singles on Sunday.
While I don't care for the extra day of the Presidents' Cup, I do like that all 12 golfers have to play the first 2 days--and then every golfer has to play at least one of the Sat. matches.  The Ryder Cup format format favors the less deep team by allowing weaker players to sit out Friday and Sat.
What do you think?

[Phil McDade]

 The Ryder Cup format format favors the less deep team by allowing weaker players to sit out Friday and Sat.
What do you think?

Cost Euro dearly in 1999.

[Amol Yajnik]

Much prefer the President's Cup format over the Ryder Cup because 4 days of competitive golf > 3 days of competitive golf, and every player in the PC has to play at least 4 out of 5 matches, with most guys playing all 5 matches.

[Tom Yost]

Seems like there is more strategy involved with more having to sit out matches at the Ryder Cup.  But I like the way they do the pairings at the President's Cup.

Can anyone answer the question: Can teams switch balls between holes in the Foursomes at the President's Cup?  I found where this was allowed beginning with the 2006 Ryder Cup.

[BHoover]

Obviously the Ryder Cup has the history, but I'm a fan of the Prez Cup too. I like that it's spread over four days, has more matches and that the captains have to play all of their guys throughout the matches.

I also think the Prez Cup beats the Ryder Cup in one other respect --- Royal Melbourne easily beats out some of the recent sites in Europe.

Any chance to watch team match play, I'm all for it.

[Tim Martin]

Obviously the Ryder Cup has the history, but I'm a fan of the Prez Cup too. I like that it's spread over four days, has more matches and that the captains have to play all of their guys throughout the matches.

I also think the Prez Cup beats the Ryder Cup in one other respect --- Royal Melbourne easily beats out some of the recent sites in Europe.

Any chance to watch team match play, I'm all for it.

The Ryder Cup doesn't have Sammy the Squirrel either.

[Terry Lavin]

This is a total non-event. It should be taken off the calendar. Fine, if you have Jack and Gary captaining and have Ernie v Tiger in a crucial match, it's interesting but in any other circumstances it's boring as hell. Put it on a course like Muirfield village and it's even more boring. Outspoken enough for you?

My feelings, exactly.

[BHoover]

This is a total non-event. It should be taken off the calendar. Fine, if you have Jack and Gary captaining and have Ernie v Tiger in a crucial match, it's interesting but in any other circumstances it's boring as hell. Put it on a course like Muirfield village and it's even more boring. Outspoken enough for you?

My feelings, exactly.

Could not disagree more. I'm sure that at on time you could say the same about the Ryder Cup when the Euros hadn't won in 40 years. At some point, the International team is going to start winning, and then it will be must-see TV.

And, if you don't like it, then just don't watch. Obviously enough folks do want to see it, which explains why it's grown in 20 years.

[Terry Lavin]

You'll see by the ratings that we weren't watching. Very few watched all week.

[BHoover]

You'll see by the ratings that we weren't watching. Very few watched all week.

I've been watching. That's what matters.

No one watches the Walker Cup, yet I don't see anyone calling it to go away.

[BHoover]

Brian, I didn't watch and won't ever watch. Sorry. It's bullshit. The fact that a chorus of singers sang John Lennon's imagine to a montage of past Pres Cup highlights at the opening ceremony is the final  nail in the coffin! (PS, I didn't watch that either, Jason Sobel informed me)

I'm not saying I watched any of that crap. I don't watch the Ryder Cup opening and closing ceremonies either. But that shouldn't detract from the golf.

[Brian Finn]

I prefer that the Ryder Cup is contested over 3 days.  Feels like the right amount of golf to me.

I prefer that the Presidents Cup offers less opportunity to sit players. I like to see all players at least 3 times.

I regret to inform everyone that due to inclement weather, the Kenny G performance at the closing ceremonies has been cancelled. I know most of the gca community had their DVRs set for that one.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Mark Provenzano]

I prefer the President's Cup format, simply for the sake of watching more of the best in the world doing what they do in a match play format.

I prefer the Ryder Cup overall though, because I'm pretty sure they'd show it live even out here in PST.   

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian Hoover - when will the internationals ever be a proper team? They by nature come from around the world don't necessarily play on the same tours and frankly don't have anything in common.

Sadly the RC is played on the course that bids the most as it's the PGAs biggest income generator. Saying that the Belfry may not be a great course but it developed great excitement.

[Tim Pitner]

I think the Ryder Cup format is perfect.  In the opening days, the captains have to balance between sending out their strongest teams and potentially giving their weaker players a taste of the competition, and their stronger players some rest, prior to the singles.  I also like the blind singles draw.  The matches are usually close and there's enough on the line that the matchups, even if they don't feature the top players going to head to head, are compelling.

I understand the desire to have the format of the President's Cup different from the Ryder Cup but it's not working for the Internationals.  One issue for the Internationals is they've lost stalwarts like Vijay Singh and Retief Goosen and some of their players who looked poised to be on the team for many competitions--guys like Geoff Ogilvy, Aaron Baddeley and Ryo Ishikawa--are out of form.  They fielded a very weak team this year--similar to the U.S. Ryder Cup team that we sent to the K Club.  

[Rich Goodale]

The Ryder Cup is Chelsea v. Millwall in the FA Cup and the President's Cup is Man United v. Boca Juniors in a friendly.  If you prefer the former, you like aggro rather than golf.  If you prefer the latter, you understand the historical and underlying kindliness and gentleness of our game.

[Martin Toal]

The President's Cup is at a disadvantage because it lacks a coherent basis. Same goes for the Seve Trophy. The Ryder Cup was set up as the old home of golf versus the brash newcomer, and people have a sense what that means, even with the extension to Europe in 1979 or thereabouts. But the PC seems a bit contrived, as the brash newcomers, now dominant force versus well, the bunch who can't play in the RC.

The PC is also conspicuously a creation of the PGA Tour who resent their lack of complete control over the RC. So, for the same reason The Players will equal a major, the PC will never equal the RC. And the name, with the political association of Presidents, is a bit of a turn off too. Some of the places that are eligible don't even have Presidents, Oz for example.  

I also prefer the 3 day format. It seems to add a greater sense of urgency to he event, more a middle distance run than a marathon.

[JMEvensky]

The President's Cup is at a disadvantage because it lacks a coherent basis. Same goes for the Seve Trophy. The Ryder Cup was set up as the old home of golf versus the brash newcomer, and people have a sense what that means, even with the extension to Europe in 1979 or thereabouts. But the PC seems a bit contrived, as the brash newcomers, now dominant force versus well, the bunch who can't play in the RC.

The PC is also conspicuously a creation of the PGA Tour who resent their lack of complete control over the RC. So, for the same reason The Players will equal a major, the PC will never equal the RC. And the name, with the political association of Presidents, is a bit of a turn off too. Some of the places that are eligible don't even have Presidents, Oz for example.  

I also prefer the 3 day format. It seems to add a greater sense of urgency to he event, more a middle distance run than a marathon.

Agreed--especially the part about the PGAT's attempt to undermine the Ryder Cup.

The President's Cup is an exhibition,the Ryder Cup is a competition.

[RJ_Daley]

I have enjoyed past PCs, about as much as RCs.  Obviously, this year was a bust with the weather causing the competition to be a game of lawn darts and mud balls.  I think MV could have been a better test if it would have had the proper weather and firmer conditions  This is all the obvious.  

But, I have to agree that while I like golf and probably would watch some of either RC or PC under any conditions, I found myself generally only surfing through NBC between surfing other channels on Sat College Football, and Sun NFL.  And, replay on Golf Channel doesn't help because of the big night games.  So IMO, if they are going to be restricted to fall scheduling, it seems to me they'd be smarter going to a Tues-Wed-Thurs, maybe finish Fri format so as not to compete with football.  I think if held at proper metro venues, they'd still get significant on course crowds while golf fans would play hookey from work, or they tend to be corporate folk that use the event to entertain clients etc.  Or, retired folk and generally people with flexible time to be able to attend mid-week.  As for TV, between GC rebroadcasting at weekday night + whatever day live audience they get, it seems to me that they'd still get more eyeballs than those that choose football over golf on the weekend.  

The rain just couldn't be helped, and what are you gonna do?  

I couldn't agree more about opening and closing ceremonies at both PC and RC.  Geez what a bunch of full-of-crap corporate golf self delusional image and marketing/branding that they are projecting something akin to the Olympics or other prestigious gathering in the world.  It is laughable - the almost in the realm of group narcissism that goes on in golf.    'Imagine' all the creepy people that brand and project the game of golf.  They seem effete as a culture.  

[Thomas Dai]

In it's early days wasn't there a description of the Presidents Cup as a team of American guys who mostly live in Florida vrs a team of International guys who also mostly live in Florida?

Difficult to disagree with Martin and JME's comments about the PGATours resentment and attempt to undermine the Ryder Cup.

Not sure about Richs comparison of the President's Cup as Man United v. Boca Juniors in a friendly. Wasn't there a MU-BC 'friendly' a few years ago when Mr Scholes of MU kicked Mr Tevez, then of Boca, and shortly thereafter Mr Tevez responded with an elbow into Mr Scholes face? Not quite as bad as the MU vrs Estudiantes International Cup matches back in 1968 though. As to the reference to the Ryder Cup being like an FA Cup that between 'no one like's us, we don't care' Millwall vrs Chelsea, I always thought that West Ham were the um, fiercest rivals of the team from the Isle of Dogs, but that the Dockers/Lions also have, shall we say, a somewhat 'keen' rivalry with Crystal Palace and Leeds Utd.

All the best