[Sam Morrow]

Castle Pines.  That course is incredibly overrated, and is solely held in high regard (IMO) because of service levels and exclusivity/membership. 

Agree, when I walked off 18 I didn't want to go back to 1, I wanted to get another shake.

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas
Don't worry, I'm sure there are PLENTY of others who think the same way as you about St Andrews (Old) but are afraid to articulate their feelings on gca, knowing that such opinions are deemed as tantamount to sacrilege for many.
For what it's worth, neither St Andrews (Old), Carnoustie (Championship) or Royal Troon (Old) are ranked in my personal list of Top 25 Scottish courses.
They may be great courses (for many) but they're not favourites of mine.

Jim,

Thank you for your kind words and support! I have to say that Carnoustie would be in my 25 as would Muirfield, Royal Dornoch and Royal Aberdeen. I'd have to think long and hard about the other 21 given the title of this thread uses the word 'great' but Royal Troon and Turnberry would be unlikely to be there, or if they were, others may be higher than them in the list.

Going back to TOC. Given modern equipment and how the fish-hook shaped routing, the cross-over holes and the double-greens etc slows down the pace of play, well, IMO, TOC isn't up to holding The Open any more and hasn't been for quite some time. Heresy that it may be to some, and although I don't mind The Open being held at St Andrews, I'd rather The Open, when held at StA, were held on some kind of composite course starting on the 1st at TOC, finishing with 16th-17th-18th on TOC and incorporating TOC's 11th but other than these five holes I'd have 18-holes achieved by using existing holes from the New, Jubilee and Eden courses. By all means have an every-5 or every-10 year special event called say "TOC Open" and hold it exclusively on TOC, but holding The Open on TOC is IMO no longer justifiable from the golfing (rather than £$£$£$) point of view.

All the best

[Greg Taylor]

Carnoustie, Bandon Dunes, Pebble, Kiawah Island to name but three.

Carnoustie I thought seemed to wander from links, parkland and links again. Just doesn't flow. Too tough to be fun in the wind. I can why it's a great course but it's not likeable to me at least.

Pebble, holes 6 thru 10 are all world but the rest...?!

Bandon, four great holes but too much ordinariness to warrant any affection over time from me.

Kiawah, again too tough with a 40mph wind. Again I can see why it's great though.

Understand why people say the same about Troon and Lytham.

[David Kelly]

Muirfield
Turnberry (Ailsa)
Kingsbarns
Royal Dornoch (Championship)
Royal Aberdeen (Balgownie)
Castle Stuart
Loch Lomond
Machrie
North Berwick (West)
Cruden Bay
Western Gailes
Prestwick
St Andrews (Castle)
St Andrews (Dukes)
Nairn (Championship)
Skibo Castle
Lundin Links
Moray (Old)
Renaissance Club
Gullane No.1
St Andrews (Jubilee)
Spey Valley
St Andrews (New)
Dundonald
Machrihanish

So you think the Old Course is the 5th best course in St. Andrews.  Interesting.

I don't particularly enjoy Spyglass.  Except for the first hole the holes in the dunes are't that  interesting and the holes away from the dunes are unmemorable.

I guess Whistling Straits is thought of as great but I think it is pretty boring and at the same time overdone.

I wasn't really feeling Muirfield on my single play but I played it in a downpour and would like another crack at it at least before making up my mind.

Kiawah Island Ocean underwhelmed me when I played it relative to how others view it. Same with TPC Sawgrass.

[jeffwarne]

Life's too short to play courses you don't like, and others consider great.
If I don't like it, I'm very unlikely to consider it great.
If I really like it, I think it's great.
Perhaps I overrate my own opinion.

[Tom_Doak]

The irony of it is the Colosseum is one of the places I most want to visit one day.

Grant:

Another irony:  none of the posts on this thread has caused me to agree much, but, I went to the Colosseum with my son a few years back and found it very disappointing.  I hope it is much better for you, when you get there.

[Grant Saunders]

The irony of it is the Colosseum is one of the places I most want to visit one day.

Grant:

Another irony:  none of the posts on this thread has caused me to agree much, but, I went to the Colosseum with my son a few years back and found it very disappointing.  I hope it is much better for you, when you get there.

I think a lot of replies have gotten too hung up on the rankings side of things and are more focused on disagreeing with those as opposed to looking objectively at a course.

[Jud_T]

Once again one can go back to Mike Nuzzo's piece about preferences for Fun, Pretty or Challenging courses and frame this question in that light.

[Sean_A]

Kiawah, again too tough with a 40mph wind. Again I can see why it's great though.

I am struggling to even conceive of a great course that isn't too tough in 40mph wind - its basically unplayable conditions. 

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Carnoustie, Bandon Dunes, Pebble, Kiawah Island to name but three.

Has three replaced four for the signifier of Roman IV? smiley face

[David Bartman]

Bandon Trials, Castle Pines, seminole, MPCC Shore, The Preserve, Mayacama,  

[Mark Pearce]

Kiawah, again too tough with a 40mph wind. Again I can see why it's great though.

I am struggling to even conceive of a great course that isn't too tough in 40mph wind - its basically unplayable conditions. 

Ciao

Quite.  Tough to stand up in 40mph winds, let alone swing a club.

[Brent Hutto]

I've played so few courses generally accepted as "Great" that it's no surprise I can't think of any I really disliked. As Sean said, some of them may not be as highly regarded in my estimation as by others but generally speaking even a really good golf course is going to be hard for me not to like.

For perspective, keep in mind that I have only ever really disliked maybe 1 in 20 of the courses I've played. And I've played some courses that were basically 18 holes and some closely mown grass in a pasture...

[Martin Toal]

Torrey Pines, Doral Blue Monster.

OK, neither 'great' courses, but many like them.

More controversially, I wasn't crazy about Huntercombe [dons protective headgear]. Some nice holes, but I didn't see it as a destination course. Sorry.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Bandon Trials, Castle Pines, seminole, MPCC Shore, The Preserve, Mayacama,  

Bandon Trials?  That's what I call it too!  That course owned me, but I was somewhat amazed at how good it was given that it was the inland course companion to 3 courses on the ocean.  I definitely want another crack or two at that course.

I agree with the Torrey consensus.  I liked the 4th and the 12th, but the 3rd SHOULD be a great hole and isn't, and the rest is just blah.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bandon Trials, Castle Pines, seminole, MPCC Shore, The Preserve, Mayacama,  

David,

Might I suggest that you begin posting under another name ?

What don't you like about Seminole and MPCC Shore ?

[Carl Johnson]

The leaders would be Muirfield and Carnoustie.  These are generally acknowledged to be "great courses," but for me, the average (for my old age) recreational golfer they were very difficult, boring courses, and beyond that, neither seemed welcoming to USA visitors.  Having said that, for a fee, they did let us play, which most of the so-called great courses in the USA would not do.  That's why no USA great courses make my list.  To be fair, there are a few USA "great courses" that are open to the public (e.g., Pinehurst #2, Pebble Beach, Bethpage Black) but I've not played them.  Regarding Murfield and Carnoustie, just because I "don't like" them does not mean I deny their status as great courses - only that they don't suit me.

[Jonathan Mallard]

As has been discussed much in other threads: Royal Troon.

[Mike_Trenham]

Oak Hill East, too many trees, routing changes don't fit well, I prefer the West Course and can make more pars on it too.

Ocean Course, saw the 1991 Ryder Cup, played it on a fine day with the right amount of wind, too many water hazards and sticky grass, I loved TPC Sawgrass more (but I played that with three of my closest friends so it may have helped in my admiration for the tee ball challenges).  Sanctuary is the best hotel I have ever stayed in Marriott Sawgrass is a dump.

Banff, only the fairway bunker placement caught my attention, mud ball on a flatish set of fairways (full disclosure I played a scrable), I know it cost a fortune to build but I would have liked more tees or greens shelved up towards the valley walls.  If you have never spent a day hiking you may be inspired by the vistas on this walk/cart ride.

[Pete Balzer]

Chambers Bay, Doral Blue, and Torrey Pines either

[Bob_Garvelink]

Arcadia Bluffs was a big disappointment for me.  Great views although the greens ruined the course for me.

[Paul Carey]

Muirfield Village: I had played the Golf Club the day before and there was no comparison.
Troon:  I love the holes around the postage stamp loop the rest are ok.  I had more fun down the road at Western Gailes
Carnoustie:  it is so hard and I hate 17 and 18 with the water everywhere.

[David Bartman]

Bandon Trials, Castle Pines, seminole, MPCC Shore, The Preserve, Mayacama,  

David,

Might I suggest that you begin posting under another name ?

What don't you like about Seminole and MPCC Shore ?

Pat,

I stand by my opinions , and that is all they are, so I will continue to post under my own name

Seminole - I have only played it once , so a very small sample size, but I didn't appreciate how the greens were not receptive given the wind that we had to endure.  I was told that the wind was blowing from the normal direction.  I saw many decent shots from the fairway roll through greens into spots that were extremely penal given the quality of shot that was hit.   Funny thing is , I usually like Ross's courses but certainly didn't find Seminole to be one, the only time I played it.  

MPCC Shore -  I have mostly played this course during CA state am week where the greens are 13 or so.  One year the wind blew 30 mph and one of the par 3's was barely reachable with Driver.  That being said, the course with the greens that fast was once again extremely unfair , especially if you drive your ball out of position in any way.  I am a big fan of recovery shots in golf, I am not very fond of golf courses that do not allow for recovery shots.   The greens are too severe to have the greens that fast, so it may have more to do with course set up than with the course itself, but that is mostly the way I have seen the golf course.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

Seminole punishes the marginal shot.

It gives the golfer very wide fairways and very benign rough, but approach shots must be hit solidly or they suffer the consequences.

Just curious as to your handicap, as Seminole, like PV can sometimes be beyond the skill set of certain golfers.

As to the Shore greens being at 13, I know that they tend to run fast, but 13 seems excessive if not mythical.
With their slope and any meaningful wind, the ball wouldn't stop rolling at 13.

It was probably # 7 that wasn't reachable with a driver, but that's a 200+ yard hole so I don't have a problem with that.

The fairways are pretty generous at the Shore course

Interesting that both course you don't like are on the ocean.
Could the wind be a factor in your dislike of those courses.

It's hard to imagine a golfer not liking BOTH of those courses.

[David Bartman]

David,

Seminole punishes the marginal shot.

It gives the golfer very wide fairways and very benign rough, but approach shots must be hit solidly or they suffer the consequences.

Just curious as to your handicap, as Seminole, like PV can sometimes be beyond the skill set of certain golfers.

As to the Shore greens being at 13, I know that they tend to run fast, but 13 seems excessive if not mythical.
With their slope and any meaningful wind, the ball wouldn't stop rolling at 13.

It was probably # 7 that wasn't reachable with a driver, but that's a 200+ yard hole so I don't have a problem with that.

The fairways are pretty generous at the Shore course

Interesting that both course you don't like are on the ocean.
Could the wind be a factor in your dislike of those courses.

It's hard to imagine a golfer not liking BOTH of those courses.

Pat,

I am a former pro and fairly successful amateur golfer , I can promise you that I know the difference between a marginal shot and a well struck one.  The day I played seminole it was dry, hard and fast and that may have had something to do with the receptiveness of the greens that particular day.  

As to MPCC , I don't feel that many of the holes are that generous off the tee, some are and some are not.  You are correct that 13 on the stimp is ridiculous, and borderline unfair, but that is why you see -2 being medalist and +6 making match play, with the average score being almost +6 on the shore.  These are the best players in California, lots of college players , its not even close to the same set up as the pros which really makes no sense to me.  It was #7 it was 225 into the wind to a back pin, it was playing close to 270, an anomaly for sure.  

Wind isn't my issue, I won the Trans miss at Prairie Dunes  in the wind most days, in fact , I prefer to play in the wind, it really separates those that know how to hit golf shots from those that can only hit the ball one way.  

Let's not forget that the thread was which great golf courses that one doesn't like, so I happily acknowledge that these courses are great , they are just not for me.  

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