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JLahrman

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2013, 09:55:32 PM »
how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I hope to do so next week and catch a Duck/Buffalo game.

Just barely fitting a trip into the midwest "golf season"  ;D

Hmmm...Nebraska is Midwest? Might want to put some "quotes" around that part too! Ask the locals what they think.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2013, 10:05:44 PM »
how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I hope to do so next week and catch a Duck/Buffalo game.

Just barely fitting a trip into the midwest "golf season"  ;D

Hmmm...Nebraska is Midwest? Might want to put some "quotes" around that part too! Ask the locals what they think.

lived there for 2 years, and the local folks are the nicest people...still amazes me how much flat land there is in the center of the US

however BN +1, nicer folks on the phone/internet, aside from CJ who is second to none, prior to the RUMBLE
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 10:10:16 PM by W_Grieve »
It's all about the golf!

Bruce Wellmon

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2013, 10:14:13 PM »
how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I can name 3 for sure. Shaida, Eric, myself.   ;)

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2013, 11:13:56 PM »
Does either course have a longer season?

HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2013, 12:04:29 AM »
how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I can name 3 for sure. Shaida, Eric, myself.   ;)

+2, Doyle and Mr. Stephen Davis :-)

David Davis

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2013, 02:45:39 AM »
Both were fun. Not a huge fan of the fact that to me Dismal Red is a cart course where Ballyneal is a pure walking course in my opinion.

A cart course? Really? I thought the Red was a great walk. Are there a couple of tough spots, sure. But I think you can say the same for Ballyneal. I would rate each of them a 10 as far as walkability.

Actually, I walked it every time but Sunday morning early. The walk is fine but it took a logistic effort to make it comfortably happen. To me it's hard to call a course a walking course if you have to walk that far to the first tee. I walk everything, almost always and have had maybe 7 rounds riding in the last 2 years out of 250+ rounds.

So, sure it's a walking course if you drive a cart to the first tee and someone moves the cart for you to pick you up at 18 and plain and simple that loses points for me in this bout!
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Don_Mahaffey

Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2013, 08:59:31 AM »
I think DR supporters are going to have to accept that some will always down grade the golf because of the 5 minute cart ride to the first tee.

For me, it is unusual, and it is unusual that the course doesn't end where it starts, but on this ground, in this location, it works. But it appears many would have preferred a lessor course that fits their traditional mindset of what it "should" be.

Just getting to the Sand Hills takes logistical effort, especially if you are coming from half way across the world.

What is it in so many of us that requires all courses to be so similar.

David, did you see the large bluff to the north, the river, the setting?

I'm not lobbying for the golf course to be rated higher then Ballyneal because I happen to think both courses are great, but I also know DR sites in an awesome natural setting for golf and I don't understand the minus points for that because you have to travel a bit to get there.

There are a ton of beautiful places on earth that require logistical effort to get to. I'm not going to grade them down for that.  

Keith OHalloran

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2013, 09:06:36 AM »
Don,
I agree with you. When I was there, the heat and my fatness conspired to have me ride the course (sorry Tom Doak) but I never thought anything of the ride down to the tee. You have a journey to get there, what is a small ride to the tee if that is where the course is supposed to start?

Brandon Urban

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2013, 09:27:51 AM »

So, sure it's a walking course if you drive a cart to the first tee and someone moves the cart for you to pick you up at 18 and plain and simple that loses points for me in this bout!

So some of the courses at Bandon are not walking courses because you have to take a shuttle to the first tee?
181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2013, 09:33:55 AM »
While I certainly don't think that the brief cart ride to the 1st tee at Dismal, or Sand Hills for that matter, deducts from the course or experience, everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Let's try to keep this thread on track and not get sideways.  If some deduct points for that, that's their priority.

Brandon Urban

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2013, 09:42:51 AM »
Putting up a couple of pics of the second hole at each course so the JKs can continue this great thread. Sorry that these aren't the best. Hoping some others can put their's up as well.

Dismal #2 Tee - 430 Yard Par 4


Looking back towards the tee.


Ballyneal #2 Tee - 440 Yard Par 4


Approach
181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2013, 10:20:10 AM »
Round 2.  Do we have a Doak template in the making because these holes seem remarkably alike in scope and purpose.  Funny in that I don't remember them exactly like they are portrayed in the above photos.  I thought Red was more uphill while Ballyneal played downhill.  I also seem to recall more of a sense of comfort at Ballyneal, a can't miss opportunity off the tee. The one issue that does clearly win out for one or the other is the walk to the tee.  At Ballyneal this is the first sense of discovery on where you will choose to tee it up.  A simple walk straight up from the green.  Red requires a form of backtrack no matter how you cut it.  So with that in mind Ballyneal scores a decision of 10 - 9.

Running Card:

1. Red 10 - 8
2. BN  10 - 9

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2013, 10:23:16 AM »
Round 2.  Do we have a Doak template in the making because these holes seem remarkably alike in scope and purpose.  Funny in that I don't remember them exactly like they are portrayed in the above photos.  I thought Red was more uphill while Ballyneal played downhill.  I also seem to recall more of a sense of comfort at Ballyneal, a can't miss opportunity off the tee. The one issue that does clearly win out for one or the other is the walk to the tee.  At Ballyneal this is the first sense of discovery on where you will choose to tee it up.  A simple walk straight up from the green.  Red requires a form of backtrack no matter how you cut it.  So with that in mind Ballyneal scores a decision of 10 - 9.

Running Card:

1. Red 10 - 8
2. BN  10 - 9

OK, now I'm becoming too much of a homer for DR, but paths (walking and cart) have been added and it is no longer a back track. having said that, I do not disagree with your scoring.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2013, 10:26:35 AM »
Don,

Even with the path do you have to walk up that mound and then back down to the tee?  I would guess that if you are pushing a cart, as I will always do, you would leave the cart at the front of the green.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2013, 10:30:14 AM »
JK, no, if you are pushing a cart you go to the green and turn right off the back right of the green and walk to the tee, or make a slight right turn and walk up to the back tee.
If you are on a cart, they cut a path with a turnaround bubble so you drive around the mound and park just off the right side of the green.


John Kavanaugh

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2013, 10:44:14 AM »
Don,

That is great news.  A necessary addition considering the group waiting may be going for the green in two.  I'm still fine with my card.  I don't know why but I have a vivid memory of walking to the second tee at Ballyneal and feeling a sense of peace over my next shot.  It is an odd mindset for me.  I sure as hell don't recall all that trouble shown in Brandon's picture.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2013, 11:37:18 AM »

Actually, I walked it every time but Sunday morning early. The walk is fine but it took a logistic effort to make it comfortably happen. To me it's hard to call a course a walking course if you have to walk that far to the first tee. I walk everything, almost always and have had maybe 7 rounds riding in the last 2 years out of 250+ rounds.

So, sure it's a walking course if you drive a cart to the first tee and someone moves the cart for you to pick you up at 18 and plain and simple that loses points for me in this bout!

David, my friend, how on earth did you arrive at the first tee when you visited SHGC? :)

One thing I'd like to point out is that after your injury during the 5th Major you were still able to compete because of the availability of a cart. Otherwise we would have had to WD. So carts aren't all bad, are they?

John Kirk

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2013, 11:38:57 AM »
The 2nd hole at Ballyneal was the last hole completed during construction.  It plays up to 490 yards long, and if the players are willing to walk up to the back tee, they are afforded the best view of the hole.  It is also the highest point on the golf course.  Most of the other teeing areas make the tee shot partially blind; by the time you get to the women's tee the views open up again.

The tee shot is wide open, and rewards power more than accuracy.  Downwind the hole can be a driver and short (7-9 iron) for me, into the less common north wind the hole requires two low, well struck long shots to get to the deep, gently sloped green.  After bombing away off the tee, the resulting combinations of distance and pin placement, together with the two primary hazards, a small short left bunker and a large front right bunker/shoulder, paint a clear picture in my mind as to the desired shot.  This is what I love about a good golf course most, when the required shot paints a picture in my mind's eye.

Because the approach shot is long, and the green is large and relatively flat, this hole often yields a favorite type of shot, the long, gently breaking putt, a rare play at Ballyneal.

During my one round at Dismal River's Red course, I walked and played the back tees, because I felt it gave me the best chance to understand the course.  It is 7000 yards long; assuming a 6% distance factor for elevation, the course should play the same as a 6600 yard course at sea level.

The 2nd hole at Dismal River is about 472 yards, with the back teeing area further right than shown in Brandon's photo.  The tee shot is deceptive; you can't see much of the landing area, and I had to decide what the function of the large left fairway bunker was.  Was it a carry bunker with a speed slot behind?  I decided no, and played well right, which was the right call.  I hit a pretty strong tee shot into the center of the fairway, which left me about 230 yards way uphill.  I absolutely smashed a 5-wood a few yards short of the green, and made a rare up and down off short turf for par.

I love these modern, very long par 4 holes.  Streamsong Red has the king of them all; their 15th hole is about 500 yards, so far uphill you can't believe they put "4" on the card.  Old Macdonald has the downwind 505 yard 4th hole, "Hog's Back", which has perhaps my favorite approach shot on that course.  At Dismal River, this super long par 4 has a green with lots of short grass around the green to accommodate misses.  The front left greenside bunker hides some of the green and a lot of short grass recovery area, too.  Even if I played the hole from the 430 yard tee box, I would often be left with 200-220 yards, and the type of approach shot I enjoy immensely.

Sand ridges obscured the view off the tee shot, and also hid the left side of the green.  It is a recurring theme at this course.  At Ballyneal, almost every tee shot is clearly visible, but second shots are often blind after a less than perfect tee ball.

When I played this hole, I thought to myself how Dismal River felt as though it was draped on top of the broad dunes, whereas Ballyneal feels as though it is fitted among the smaller "chop" dunes, with all natural containment mounding.

As you can tell, I loved Dismal River #2, and also have Ballyneal #2 as a favorite golf hole.  I'll call it a draw.

10-10.




John Kavanaugh

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2013, 01:05:40 PM »
John makes a great point concerning the visual intimidation from the tee that plays out on both courses. I have played with both Rupert and Chris and can't ignore how Tom may have taken into consideration their respective ball flights during his design. Is it just me?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2013, 09:32:14 PM »
John makes a great point concerning the visual intimidation from the tee that plays out on both courses. I have played with both Rupert and Chris and can't ignore how Tom may have taken into consideration their respective ball flights during his design. Is it just me?

John:

Rupert had barely played golf at all before we built Ballyneal.  I was amazed how well he started playing after it was built, just from playing it everyday in the early days.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2013, 11:04:33 PM »
John makes a great point concerning the visual intimidation from the tee that plays out on both courses. I have played with both Rupert and Chris and can't ignore how Tom may have taken into consideration their respective ball flights during his design. Is it just me?

John:

Rupert had barely played golf at all before we built Ballyneal.  I was amazed how well he started playing after it was built, just from playing it everyday in the early days.

I played with Rupert that first year. He obviously was a fine natural athlete, wrestler I think. It would only be natural, not to mention kind, to build a novice golfer a course comfortable from the tee.

I would go so far to say that the majority of posters on this site would prefer that all courses be built under these constraints.

Matt MacIver

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2013, 11:23:08 PM »
Having been to neither I want to hear more about the wind, and the ground game, the surrounds, and the angles, please. Love this dialogue keep it up.

John Kirk

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2013, 12:34:48 AM »
John makes a great point concerning the visual intimidation from the tee that plays out on both courses. I have played with both Rupert and Chris and can't ignore how Tom may have taken into consideration their respective ball flights during his design. Is it just me?

It did not take long for Rupert to become a good driver of the ball.  He is a little wild, but he can hit it.

I'm going to defer comments on hitting the ball high until we come to one of the Dismal River holes that requires a high trajectory drive, though I will say I think Ballyneal requires few high drives, and is well suited to a low ball hitter.  At Ballyneal, it can help to get it up in the air on #4, over the big bunkers on either #7 or #10, and on #16.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2013, 07:47:04 AM »
Having been to neither I want to hear more about the wind, and the ground game, the surrounds, and the angles, please. Love this dialogue keep it up.

Matt:

Not much to say about the wind at Ballyneal and Dismal.  It's generally windy, and sometimes very windy, but the wind comes from multiple directions so it wouldn't be right to describe a "prevailing" wind ... you have to be ready for it from all quarters.  That's why the courses are so wide ... and why they are hardly any holes where you have to carry a hazard just in front of the green.  [Because, when the hole is 30 mph downwind, there wouldn't be much you could do.]

Jimmy Muratt

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Re: Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2013, 09:07:30 AM »
The ever present and changing winds are such an asset to courses like Ballyneal, Dismal River and Sand Hills.  Since there is no prevailing wind direction and it usually changes from morning to afternoon, playing your afternoon round is a whole new experience.  

Referencing the 1st hole at Ballyneal, it could be a driver - wedge in the morning and a driver - 5 iron in the afternoon.  Dismal's 1st can be a reachable par 5 when downwind but a stern 5 into the wind, driver-fairway wood-8 iron.  Throw a 25 mph crosswind into the mix and it's even more of a challenge.  It's often said, but the courses are always changing.

The firm conditions combined with the wind create even more of a unique and fun challenge.  You can have a 60 yard shot playing 25 mph downwind to a green that slopes away, and you have infinite ways to play it.   That is fun golf.

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