Teeing grounds

[jeffwarne]

Not discussed a lot here

Location
Setting
Shape
Size
Elevation
How well they blend into surrounding terrain
Proximity to last green
Many small vs fewer large
Varying angles
Visibility and "look" of target/hazards
Laser leveled?
Sloped for drainage?

Does any architect build tees sloped to produce various shots?
Uphill lie for uphill teeshot, ball above feet for draw etc.or  simply build sloped tee to tie in with natural terrain.
Am aware of Sebonack's tees, but question the need to maintain that much unused short grass, unless they do indeed use those areas.
The look is very cool though.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

The tees at Sebonack are indeed cool.  I've always disliked rectangular tees in the landscape.  We started experimenting with big and oddly shaped tees at Pacific Dunes, at Jim Urbina's suggestion, and kept working on them until we got somewhere.  Now I see others starting to follow suit.

You are right that the tees at Sebonack are hard to justify given the grass type and the area involved; I got a reprimand from my old sustainability friend from Cornell, Dr. Frank Rossi, about that.  With fescue (as at Ballyneal and Bandon and Dismal River) or with bermudagrass (as at Streamsong), where you don't have to spray fungicide so often, the size of the tee is mitigated by being able to mow the area with a bigger mower; in fact at most of those courses the tees are done with one of the fairway mowers, so there is less equipment required for the course.

As I've gotten further in the business, the proximity of greens and tees has become more and more important to me, and I'm a stickler for keeping them as low to the ground as the drainage allows.  I don't think they should stand out in the landscape, we're trying to make them as seamless as we can.

We usually build some slope on the tee, 1% to the side or to the front or back.  If the hole is playing uphill, the tee will generally run that way too.  If we are doing a sideslope, we'd rather do right-to-left instead of left-to-right so we don't exaggerate the sliced ball, but sometimes the terrain dictates otherwise.

[Greg Holland]

Interesting you raised the sloped tee question, because I was recently looking at the current issue of Links magazine.  In the "My Design" piece, Robert Trent Jones II discussed No. 15 at Chambers Bay, and noted "uneven lies from the tees create shotmaking opportunities."  He said his spiritual guide for the course was Pine Valley, and the idea for contoured tees was from the short course at PV -- which has uneven lies to replicate shots on the main course.   Cool feature/idea!

[Joel_Stewart]

I've been looking at teeing grounds for years.  I personally like the walk off tees, perfectly flush to the ground allowing a seamless transition onto the fairway when possible. LACC has a few, especially the 1st hole and Olympic Clubs 1st hole is still intact.  It seems to me it would reduce maintenance?

Was anyone surprised at how many rectangular tees are in place at NGLA during the Walker Cup.  

[Sean_A]

I like teeing grounds flowing from the previous green, but understand that is extra maintenance that is unnecessary.  Perhaps in important places such as near the house where the 18th green and 1st tee should be, an all short grass area would look good.  Otherwise, I disagree with Tom and  prefer rectangle tees (squared off anyway - don't mid L, E, F shapes etc) cut low to the ground, slightly raised if necessary.  I really dislike circular tees.  For tees on a natural platform I would rather see the entire platform cut rather than sections for teeing areas.  The most important thing though is proximity to the previous green, of course, this also leaves more scope for short grass flowing from green through tee.  Below is a great example from Worlington.  


A great example of squared off tee - simple.


Ciao

[Lyne Morrison]

I shall admit that I have something of an obsession with tees - or more precisely, their placement, construction and presentation. This is no doubt due to the fact that women, more often than not, draw the short straw when it comes to tees. As an architect this is incredibly frustrating, when it is so easy to get it right for all.

Tee placement is key to the setup of a golf hole and how players connect and interact with the course. When well sited, the true test and joy of the game is revealed.  However, when given scant, or no thought, the soufflé collapses very quickly with the player left short changed and unknowingly disengaged.

In 2013 one wonders why such an important element of the course can be disregarded so readily by decision makers when 'connection' with a course translates into return play.

Why is it that back tees, more often then not, are given priority, authority and prominence, while the more forward tees are often overlooked? If we really care about player engagement with the game and sustained levels of participation, we should ensure that the necessary range of tees are provided - with appropriate yardage, siting and maintenance in place.

Lyne

[Joel_Stewart]

I like teeing grounds flowing from the previous green, but understand that is extra maintenance that is unnecessary.

I agree.  The best example I can think of is the Valley Club.  Below is a photo showing the flow from the 1st green to the 2nd tee.

[Joel_Stewart]

The tee grounds I don't understand are the "scar the earth" multiple teeing grounds which I have to believe started with RTJ and was carried on by Dick Wilson.   I had a photo of the 1st at Spyglass which stretches to slightly over 100 yards in multiple tees and can't seem to find it.

Below is some of the same type of disfigurement at Olympic Club.

[Tom_Doak]

Joel:

That's the reason I hate square tees ... thanks for posting.  It's because with multiple tees, looking at all of the tees in front of you is so damned distracting.  Sean Arble doesn't have to consider that b.s. because the courses he loves don't have 4, 5 and 6 tees per hole.

The tee you pictured at The Valley Club was restored by us.  For years, we've had hanging in our office an old as-built map of the golf course, that showed nearly every tee being mowed as a spin-off of the previous fairway -- for a while, we thought it was just artistic flair on the part of the guy who made the drawing, until we got some aerial photos of the course shortly after construction and realized that was really how they'd mowed the place.  They just ran the gang mowers right past the green and up onto the next tee and connected it all like fairway.  That was really what convinced us to start doing it on some of our new designs.

Our first attempt to fix the second tee at The Valley Club was pretty laughable ... we mowed out fairway all the way over to the tee, but then they wanted to keep the bluegrass around the tee to preserve the rectangular tee boxes they'd had.  It was like that for a few months before they admitted how stupid that looked.

[Thomas Dai]

Does any architect build tees sloped to produce various shots?Uphill lie for uphill teeshot, ball above feet for draw etc.or  simply build sloped tee to tie in with natural terrain.

This is something I've wondered as well.

As an aside, when I walk up to a tee I usually have a good look at how flat the tee is or isn't and will try to find a spot where my feet are either above or below the ball to aid moving the ball in my preferred direction, depending on the wind, shape of the hole etc. I don't necessarily pull the shot off mind, but I can at least try! Does anyone else adopt this approach? I dislike tees that rise upwards or downwards towards the front though. I also don't care for it when the tee blocks are positioned so far forward to be within a inch or so of the drop-off at the front of the tee or so far back that you haven't got the 2-club lengths allowance to vary your position by. Occasionally I will stand with my feet outside the teeing area and the ball within it to maximise angle or wind assistance etc.

All the best.

PS - is Sean's second photo the 14th hole at wonderful Beau Desert by any chance?

[James Boon]

I do like tees that are close to the previous green. There is something I enjoy about putting my bag on the next tee before wandering back for a few putts to finish off on the previous hole.

I also like variety in tees and dont like the idea of 5 or 6 per hole, evenly spread out. It works when scattering a number of tees down a steep slope or on uneven ground, but if its generally flat, I prefer seeing them bunched together, side by side or sharing one larger tee.

I would say most courses I've played with sloping tees, have had more to do with poor construction than any desire to challenge or help the golfer?  

PS - is Sean's second photo the 14th hole at wonderful Beau Desert by any chance?

Thomas,

Sure looks like Beau's 14th to me.

Cheers,

James

[David Harshbarger]

I shall admit that I have something of an obsession with tees - or more precisely, their placement, construction and presentation. This is no doubt due to the fact that women, more often than not, draw the short straw when it comes to tees. As an architect this is incredibly frustrating, when it is so easy to get it right for all.

Tee placement is key to the setup of a golf hole and how players connect and interact with the course. When well sited, the true test and joy of the game is revealed.  However, when given scant, or no thought, the soufflé collapses very quickly with the player left short changed and unknowingly disengaged.

In 2013 one wonders why such an important element of the course can be disregarded so readily by decision makers when 'connection' with a course translates into return play.

Why is it that back tees, more often then not, are given priority, authority and prominence, while the more forward tees are often overlooked? If we really care about player engagement with the game and sustained levels of participation, we should ensure that the necessary range of tees are provided - with appropriate yardage, siting and maintenance in place.

Lyne

This is such an important point.  

Everyone should have a chance to enjoy golf and having an engaging, welcoming, honoring start to each hole is the foundation of that.

[Sean_A]

That's the reason I hate square tees ... thanks for posting.  It's because with multiple tees, looking at all of the tees in front of you is so damned distracting.  Sean Arble doesn't have to consider that b.s. because the courses he loves don't have 4, 5 and 6 tees per hole.

Tom

To be fair, I never said I was in favour of that amount of tees.  Most of the time, I think its silly unless width is the emphasis, in which case we wouldn't get the dreadful scenario Joel highlights.  I understand your predicament in developers wanting tees to suit any possible level of golfer (even though they fail miserably anyway), but I still think its unnecessary.  

Ciao  

[JimB]

Interesting you raised the sloped tee question, because I was recently looking at the current issue of Links magazine.  In the "My Design" piece, Robert Trent Jones II discussed No. 15 at Chambers Bay, and noted "uneven lies from the tees create shotmaking opportunities."  He said his spiritual guide for the course was Pine Valley, and the idea for contoured tees was from the short course at PV -- which has uneven lies to replicate shots on the main course.   Cool feature/idea!

I found that piece interesting as well but when I asked around about how it plays, since I have not been there, I was informed that what is currently on the ground doesn't reall reflect the description. Those who know it well, did it ever have significantly uneven lies? What about this concept?

[Tim Gavrich]

I think both styles of tees can be perfectly acceptable or unacceptable in certain environments. If I recall correctly, the tee bozes at Yale are squared/rectangled off. I think that practice is well in keeping with the often sharped aesthetic of Macdonald and Raynor's features. Likewise at the Old White course. I wouldn't want to see those tee boxes any other way.

Conversely, at The Reserve around here, it's a Norman course whose features are more curvy and bulbous. The tee boxes there are rounded, with the added bonus of almost all of them being surrounded by pine straw (the course has no long grass rough; only short grass and sandy waste/pine needles). Great look in its own home environment.

I will say, though, that over the years it seems as if rounded-edged tee boxes tend to shrink and, if they've been elevated above their surrounds, grow uneven a little faster than the squared-off ones. That's been my anecdotal experience, anyway.