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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Where does the work start?
« on: September 24, 2013, 09:18:21 PM »
This is one of those questions that's almost embarrassingly simple to ask and reveals how little I really know about golf architecture as a business:

Let's imagine a lower-budget semi-private course in a fairly rural area has identified some work that needs to be done. They'd like to find a semi-local architect to advise and supervise the renovation of a few holes.

Do they simply start Googling architects and use word of mouth? Is there a place they could post a description of the need to attract potential architects to add to their RFP pool? I'm picturing something like an elance.com for golf architecture, but I don't know that it exists.

Obviously there are a few firms with enough name recognition that business might seek them. But for regional architects, where do you look to find leads, how do you market yourself, and how can a course that needs work done publicize the opportunity?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 10:12:49 PM »
I've been found by a few current clients - print and online.
Another was part referral and recommendation.
Our current work is very far from regional however.

The decision maker is different at every course:
Superintendent, manager, pro, owner, member, green committee

Municipalities advertise their requests.
A course can send a request to the ASGCA to solicit proposals - that method leaves out many talented firms.

And anyone can design a golf course... as shown by so many who have done it themselves - mostly unsuccessfully IMO.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 10:36:17 PM »
Jason:

A lot of finding work is just being proactive.  Go and hang out in the places you'd like to work!  That's probably why I was contacted for St. Andrews Beach and Barnbougle years ago, and why Royal Melbourne finally figured out that I'd be a good fit.   And it wasn't six months after I drove through Montana and had the thought that I'd like to work there, someday, that I got a call about Rock Creek.

For consulting work, especially, it helps immensely if the club has already seen you around before.

In my opinion, clubs and even new-course clients are extremely haphazard about the methods by which they choose an architect.  When I was writing stuff for GOLF Magazine in the 80's, and had a chance to meet developers, I would always ask them how they made their choice, and way more often than you'd think it was just a friend of a friend, or they had happened to play a particular course that turned them on to their guy.

Even so, the formal processes are generally much worse ... clubs interview several architects and make them jump through all kinds of ridiculous hoops, even though they have already narrowed it down to one or two candidates ... they just want to look like they're being fair.  The last job I lost, the client told me I was very close, but that he was mortified how many other firms had put so much work into their presentations, when they never really had a chance of getting the job.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2013, 02:02:22 AM »
For remodel work, it seems to me that a fairly fertile ground to plow for an archie is to attend and participate in the yearly GCSAA convo.  They have hospitality rooms, several days of guest lecture opportunities, and also have archies teach some of their continuing ed programs as it relates to golf course remodeling, construction techniques and related subjects.  I think if you want to impress the decision makers at the ground level, who have instinctive and symbiotic inclinations to an archie as a co-stewart of the design and field of play in the ground, you go to the super's convo.

If you are looking to influence the decision makers on the bean counting end, perhaps more on the upscale and developer side to network, I'd look more at emphasis in attending Club Managers Assoc., and various R.E. convo.s.

The GCSAA convos that I attended and took some of their C.E. offerings had a tight group of archies back in the 80s and 90s that always seemed to be there including, Cornish, Graves, Hurdzan, Silva, Lohmann, Forse, Maples several of the Dye's, Fazio, and a few others... I know of a few relationships that had been started/strengthened between a super at the convo and an attending archie.  Lawsonia/Berwick/Forse to name one,  Lohmann and some local area clubs like Oneida/Witt, Merit/Miles, others I won't say....

I realize my post is more about how an archie finds your decision makers, but your decision makers know how to find them.  Often times, the super and a club official (green chairman, general manager, owner) attend together.  Archies need to be in front of the decision makers and available to exchange thoughts at opportune times like the convos.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 02:10:10 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 02:15:24 AM »
Mikey Nunzio,  ;) ;D.... maybe you ought to develop a survey card and go to the next GCSAA convo, and pass it out to all the attending supers and ask them to rank your courses... it is all about the promotions, it seems to me...  ::) ;D  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 07:34:38 AM »
In the early days, I found out the old 80-20 adage to work out, as in 80% of your projects come from 20% of your sales work. In general, my work comes from references.

If you will indulge me in a lttle nostalgia, here is a rundown of my first few projects from nearly 30 years ago.  That I recall them so clearly means they are all significant.  Lesson learned is that you get help along the way, and it does take some luck, along with hard work to get started.

Holdrege Country Club, NB - Reference from Bill Kubly (who posts here occaisionally, and Thanks Bill!)  Who else but a newb in the biz would want a grading plan only, $5K job so far from anywhere?  A match made in heaven.  Actually did the plans on the parents kitchen table, since I had cleaned out my apartment, but hadn't yet made the move to DFW.  

Desert Rose, NV - Felt bad about this one.  Was working with Killian on a Colbert project when I decided to leave.   Worked out an arrangement to stay on that project until completion.  Had no plans of poaching Jim, but Ken (RIP) was going through a nasty divorce, and wasn't really giving the service he usually did, so Jim replaced him.  (Made him write a letter explaining I wasn't going after the work)

Eastern Hills Garland, TX - Got job from a guy who was also referred to me by Bill Kubly as a guy I should know in Dallas.

Brookstone CC, GA - Napping in office one day when Larry Nelson's Dallas based agent calls to save long distance phone call to learn about architecture for his aspiring architecture client.  Literally got a job by doing nothing to initiate it.

Plano Muni Remodel - Met a landscape architect at the photo shop developing marketing photos.  He was working with city and recommended me to city, got interview, they liked what I said.

Northwood CC, Shreveport, LA - Guy on greens committee was also starting his own irrigation business and liked the idea of hiring another guy in the same boat.

Ratliff Ranch GC, Odessa, TX - Phone call out of the blue based on the ASGCA membership list.  This is one where my work as an associate at nearby Mission Dorado for KN got me the job.  These guys understood that former design associates actually did do a lot of the work, and if willing to take a chance (not much of one, really) they get to pay a lot less money for nearly the same product.

I actually still look back in wonder.  Had ANY of those guys not paid me, I might not have lasted two years.  I didn't get that life experience for a few more years, when I at least had some cash in the bank to survive some non payment.  I was always pretty confident (or dumb)  I recall buying an expensive metal filing cabinet for drawings.  IIRC, I had $2000 in the company checking account, and used $1700 of it for that file.....It still sits in my garage for sentimental value.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 01:27:12 PM »
Big thanks to all who've responded so far. I think RJ touched on how my question might be a bit different, as it's not so much from the architect's standpoint but more from the club's.

I'm thinking less about an architect looking for work, and more about a course looking to have work done. As Tom mentioned, I think most clubs follow a fairly haphazard process. What resources are there for them to find the right match? Is it just GCSAA?

It seems like it's tough for small clubs with tighter resources. "Old money" clubs can obviously call up a "name" architect. But if you're a smaller rural club, how do you find the young Jeff Brauer who needs to line his resume and pockets a bit if you don't want to make all your decisions in-house?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 01:29:34 PM »
Big thanks to all who've responded so far. I think RJ touched on how my question might be a bit different, as it's not so much from the architect's standpoint but more from the club's.

I'm thinking less about an architect looking for work, and more about a course looking to have work done. As Tom mentioned, I think most clubs follow a fairly haphazard process. What resources are there for them to find the right match? Is it just GCSAA?

It seems like it's tough for small clubs with tighter resources. "Old money" clubs can obviously call up a "name" architect. But if you're a smaller rural club, how do you find the young Jeff Brauer who needs to line his resume and pockets a bit if you don't want to make all your decisions in-house?

Just call me.  I have cornered the market on young architects looking for an opportunity near their hometowns.  It is the next phase of my takeover plan  ;)

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 01:33:08 PM »
Sweet. We'll talk Saturday...
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 06:15:28 PM »
Isn't it usually "I know a guy who knows a guy?"
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where does the work start?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2013, 08:24:33 PM »
I think most clients are very meticulous when choosing an architect.  Body of work, trust, and real passion for the site mattered alot to me.

And the architect also gets to pick you. 


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