[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I was fortunate to be based at Medinah back in 1987 for a summer and played there alot, for the life of me, I dont remember and lakes/pones etc on #1..is my memory that bad, or has THIS change made them so more prevelant?
The work looks very good, some og the new holes are vast improvements on what was already a pretty decent course.

[RJ_Daley]

IIRC, Chicago based Nugent or in association with Killian did extensive work there in 80s-90s?  That was I believe apart from the big course work done by Jones remodels for US Open and PGA of 90s.  The place has had more work done than Kenny Rogers and Cher.  

I don't say that as criticism that it has had so much work.  Clearly, the membership and board have consistently through decades supported the idea of staying relative and competitive to hold major championship events.  It had long left the quarters of a pure golf course architecture design of a particular archie or genre, it seems to me.  So, I think we have to look at the facility as a collaborative work of various architects ideas by era and a committee of sorts.  The course needs to be judged by relevancy to competitive challenges and features that are built to clever design and proper construction standards, including good turf management principles.  Along with their iconic clubhouse, it seems to me that Medinah has a strong sense of who they are and they seem to pursue what they must to stay in the rota of both a prestigious city club and a championship venue.  It can't all be pure golf course architectural integrity faithful to authenticity of original design intent and all those sort of ideals.  

[Tom_Doak]

So, I think we have to look at the facility as a collaborative work of various architects ideas by era and a committee of sorts.  The course needs to be judged by relevancy to competitive challenges and features that are built to clever design and proper construction standards, including good turf management principles.  Along with their iconic clubhouse, it seems to me that Medinah has a strong sense of who they are and they seem to pursue what they must to stay in the rota of both a prestigious city club and a championship venue.  It can't all be pure golf course architectural integrity faithful to authenticity of original design intent and all those sort of ideals.  

RJ:  Someone earlier used the word "restoration" about this project but that was not me.  We have changed the course considerably from its original form because most everyone agreed its original form [and subsequent alterations] weren't anything really special.  I noted at the press conference a couple of weeks ago that is normally the type of job I try to avoid -- because all design work is subjective and there are bound to be some members who liked the course better "before" -- but as Ryan says, the club's governors have had my back throughout the project so I could build what I thought was best.  The only "original design intent" that matters now on this course is mine.

M W-P:  Meachem Creek runs right through the middle of course #1 and always has; several of the holes are in the flood plain.  Three of the par-3 holes on the original course played over the creek -- all in the same direction -- and the 10th and 18th always played along a pond, although the pond has been known to shrivel up substantially in a droughty summer.  There were also a lot more trees between the golf holes and the pond before we started.

[RJ_Daley]

RJ:  Someone earlier used the word "restoration" about this project but that was not me.  We have changed the course considerably from its original form because most everyone agreed its original form [and subsequent alterations] weren't anything really special.  I noted at the press conference a couple of weeks ago that is normally the type of job I try to avoid -- because all design work is subjective and there are bound to be some members who liked the course better "before" -- but as Ryan says, the club's governors have had my back throughout the project so I could build what I thought was best.  The only "original design intent" that matters now on this course is mine.

Well, I guess if you've changed parts of the routing and hole corridors, rebuilt and redesigned greens and their surrounds, including the bunkering design and placements, spec'd the turf species and cultivar selections, and redesigned the irrigation scheme, and declared your own original design intent.... I guess all future literature of attribution must say, Medinah !1 - Tom Doak!  

Question:  In the rough and tumble world of competitive GCA bidness promotions, is it customary to go upon the new fields of play and "mark" your territory, Tigeresque?  

[Tom_Doak]

RJ:

I just believe there is a big difference between "restoration" and "renovation" or "redesign" and that it's important to use the correct term.  Some other architects use "restoration" when that's not what they're doing at all.  I'm not worried about getting proper credit or not.

I just wish I'd understood at the beginning of the project where we'd wind up by the end ... I didn't charge them anywhere near as much as I would have charged for a new design!

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tom.
I think that is what I see so different and why the creek/ponds are so evident,tree removal.
Looks great.
Headed to the UK on friday date at Sunningdale next Tuesday.

[Jud_T]

I just wish I'd understood at the beginning of the project where we'd wind up by the end ... I didn't charge them anywhere near as much as I would have charged for a new design!

Good news is we finally got some Doak in Chicago (beyond consulting).  Some here claim that since you can post a CDGA handicap score there that Lost Dunes is in Chicago.  To me this is simply proof positive that inbreeding on this site is alive and well  ...So what will the Design credit for the course read?  Bendelow/Doak?  

[Tim_Cronin]

I just wish I'd understood at the beginning of the project where we'd wind up by the end ... I didn't charge them anywhere near as much as I would have charged for a new design!

Good news is we finally got some Doak in Chicago (beyond consulting).  Some here claim that since you can post a CDGA handicap score there that Lost Dunes is in Chicago.  To me this is simply proof positive that inbreeding on this site is alive and well  ...So what will the Design credit for the course read?  Bendelow/Doak?  

Tom Bendelow gets credit for the camel-shaped bunker. After that, with the rerouting and new holes, it's 90 percent Tom Doak. (While #2 is all Bendelow and #3 is a Tom Bendelow-Roger Packard-Rees Jones.)

Of course, if the club's historical motif was American Indian rather than mid-eastern, you could call it a Tom-Tom course. (groan)

[Troy Fink]

Looks great! Was that a principal's nose on 12?

[JR Potts]

Medinah has tried very hard and has generally succeeded in removing the membership and the board from all golf course design and maintenance decisions over the last few years.  I think Tom can attest to the fact that he received little to no "input" and/or "direction" from any member during the design and construction phase.

Wow, that sounds like a bold and enlightened policy.  The policy has to originate in some quarter.  It seems there must be one or a few very convincing leaders among the board to overcome the sort of human nature natural way of power politics that so often characterize such a structure.  

JR, do you know if there are plans or talks underway to hold a prestigious national tournament on the newly remodeled #1 after a few years of grow-n maturity? (like a mid-am or other national amateur or web.com pro championship level of competition)

Are there tees set about 63-6500 for averagely skilled members?  

Any talk about work on the ladies course?  Is there an opportunity there for an exploration of a restoration effort of an actual Bendelow design- given the ability to still work within the distance limits for ladies that would be in line with original design concepts?  As I remember, the ladies course has some greensites and adjacent bunkering very similar to Bendelow design that I've seen at some of his work here in WI.  If my questions are out of tune, please keep in mind that I haven't seen the facility in a dozen years or so...

RJ - sorry I missed this post.  I think there is a group that would like to investigate hosting a major event.  However, given the financial history we've had hosting major events, I'm not sure the club, as a whole, is ready for the small returns of hosting modern major events vs the inconvenience...but I guess that's for the club to decide in the event the opportunity presents itself.

While I am ecstatic about course 1, course 2 provides an amazing opportunity for us in my opinion...and you hit the nail on the head.  We are currently putting together a short term plan for restoring course #2 back to Bendelow's original plan (we have the original plans).  It shouldn't be too big of an undertaking as nothing has been done to that course in 90 years.  If there is any original restored Bendelow out there, I would love to see photos and walk the course.

If we can get course #2 done, we'll have a major championship course, a Doak and a restored Bendelow.  I think that would be pretty special.

We shall see.  

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()