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Keith Grande

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2013, 02:18:20 PM »
I have a sincere question about the logistics of getting out to play a course like this. In NY it seems that very few people own cars. How would someone get to FP at play? What about people flying in to see it? Is it just as simple as a taxi? What would the cost of a taxi be from mid town or from the airport? This all has to be factored into the expense to play the course. Should this be a concern?

Very few people own cars????  We have too many cars in NYC!   From midtown $25 cab ride, it's about 5-10 minutes from LGA, a $10 ride at most (+ tolls).  If you have a boat, pull right into the property.  Harbor Links in Port Washington has recieved alot of play from NYC residents, I'd expect Ferry Point to be even more popular.

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2013, 04:57:34 PM »
I have a sincere question about the logistics of getting out to play a course like this. In NY it seems that very few people own cars. How would someone get to FP at play? What about people flying in to see it? Is it just as simple as a taxi? What would the cost of a taxi be from mid town or from the airport? This all has to be factored into the expense to play the course. Should this be a concern?

Very few people own cars????  We have too many cars in NYC!   From midtown $25 cab ride, it's about 5-10 minutes from LGA, a $10 ride at most (+ tolls).  If you have a boat, pull right into the property.  Harbor Links in Port Washington has recieved alot of play from NYC residents, I'd expect Ferry Point to be even more popular.
Thanks for the response. I am from LA and cabs there and where I live now, Colorado, are apparently far more expensive than in New York. Here it is $25 to go a couple of miles.

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2013, 07:16:52 PM »
Mr Lapper, thanks very much for your thoughtful response and market color. 

John Percival

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2013, 12:08:25 PM »
Ok, am back.
Some points...
...again, loved the concept. On a flight into LaG a few years ago,(before construction began) saw the site and immediately thought of a course. Got home and played with routings. We had 18 holes (seven on the water) with baseball fields, soccer fields, tennis courts, hoops, even bocci ball courts. Had nature walks and, coolest of all, TWO walkways on piers into the East River! Then found out about the project. Disapponted to not have the chance to pitch, but was happy for the City to have such a great/unique course.

However, the price is, not was, IS ridiculous. The meter is running and it's gonna keep running with maint costs v. revenue. Dont know DT's contract with NYC, but would love to hear details. Difficult to imagine him making any $ with CH construction costs + maint cost against revenue. Nice that he doesn't have to carry the project's vig. Details from someone, please.

Would be great to see some public access on the site. Maybe not everything listed above, but at least something for the kids.

Regarding LaG. Yes, the planes are tweaked for US Open tennis. In fact, have been there for various Finals. But, those tweaks are only for Finals. Cant imagine the FAA re-routing planes for 4 full days. Do you wanna take off/land on a less safe glide path cause someone's got a 6 foot slider for par?

My prediction was for a PGA Tour stop. The USGA has shown that they'll consider any warm 18 holes  for an Open site.

Waiting on the DT info and then will offer up some wagers.

Tigers clinching today? Cabby IS the MVP

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2013, 12:25:35 PM »
Some pics I found...

http://www.nycgovparks.org/park-features/future-parks/ferry-point-park/golf-course

Looks restrained but well done from these few photos.


JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 07:21:22 PM »
I'm not sure where the idea that planes fly directly over Ferry Point came from.    Due to the Whitestone Bridge, planes fly in mostly to LaGuardia west of the site.  In fact, sitting on the right side of the plane often allows an excellent view of the site.   Other more rare flight directions are to the east of the site.   I have never seen a plane fly directly over the sight either landing or taking off, and the guys that are on site daily have confirmed that that never happens.   Hope this clarifies what apparently was perceived as a negative.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 07:36:01 PM »
If Jeff Lewis is excited enuf to start a thread, all I can say is, "Start spreading the news..."  
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2013, 07:11:17 AM »
Ok, am back.
Some points...
...again, loved the concept. On a flight into LaG a few years ago,(before construction began) saw the site and immediately thought of a course. Got home and played with routings. We had 18 holes (seven on the water) with baseball fields, soccer fields, tennis courts, hoops, even bocci ball courts. Had nature walks and, coolest of all, TWO walkways on piers into the East River! Then found out about the project. Disapponted to not have the chance to pitch, but was happy for the City to have such a great/unique course.

However, the price is, not was, IS ridiculous. The meter is running and it's gonna keep running with maint costs v. revenue. Dont know DT's contract with NYC, but would love to hear details. Difficult to imagine him making any $ with CH construction costs + maint cost against revenue. Nice that he doesn't have to carry the project's vig. Details from someone, please.

Would be great to see some public access on the site. Maybe not everything listed above, but at least something for the kids.

Regarding LaG. Yes, the planes are tweaked for US Open tennis. In fact, have been there for various Finals. But, those tweaks are only for Finals. Cant imagine the FAA re-routing planes for 4 full days. Do you wanna take off/land on a less safe glide path cause someone's got a 6 foot slider for par?

My prediction was for a PGA Tour stop. The USGA has shown that they'll consider any warm 18 holes  for an Open site.

Waiting on the DT info and then will offer up some wagers.

Tigers clinching today? Cabby IS the MVP

John,

It's fairly clear now that either you have some inate bias, or a behavioral pre-disposition for speculative folly.

As JWL so aptly addresses, the LGA flight vectors (fluctuating daily due to winds and temps) do not overly impact Ferry Point. This issue, while completely addressable should it ever become merited, isn't one at all. Safety is NEVER willfully compromised in these situations around such a large MSA with such a tight airspace.

Your desire to see public access and assessment of the attribution of costs reveals how little you know (publicly available through NYC Parks Dept) about the project. Your mention/question of maintenance costs v. revenue also displays a fundamental lack of knowledge of the contractual nature of the ownership and follow-on management of the course. Why, I ask, do you persist in trying to spread disbeliefs and misunderstandings?
 
Sure, the (sunken)costs over time have been absurd and most all the parties preceding DT to blame, yet you continue to believe the present and future costs will parallel such stupidity. There is absolutely zero evidence that will continue. Say whatever you want about the man's penchant for self-promotion, but Trump has more than proven his ability to effectively and efficiently complete the construction of a facility and run golf operations.

NYC Parks Department maintains the co-rights to designate access to kids, or any other worthy slice of the golfing population. They also cap the pricing at #'s not entirely unreasonable by anyone's comparative basis. Trump hasn't been shy about offering any of his facilities for local or regional competing use, and in fact, encourages his pros to host pro-bono golf days for worthy causes. Again, your previous statement has no basis, nor evidence of validity.

As for any future PGA tour stop....my own belief is who the f... cares??? They are but one factor in a larger game and a group whose values are consumed by $$$ and media attention. That said, it is exactly their thirst for the almighty buck that will draw them, like a moth to a flame, to consider Ferry Point in thier future plans.

Finally, before you continue to spread anymore of your speculation and untruths, perhaps you ought to dig into some of the publicly available material about the ownership and subsequent management of this project? You might also consider researching the FAA rules on limited airspace. Thats work you'll have to do if you have the chops. Until then, I'd also suggest limiting your comments on other threads to defending your home course, as that might require an unbelievable amount of energy to "warm up those 18 holes" at such an overrated course for any major consideration.

Cheers
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Amol Yajnik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2013, 11:21:42 AM »
The official ribbon-cutting is this morning, with Nicklaus, Trump and Bloomberg all in attendance.  However, reports are that the course won't actually open for public play until 2015.

Golf.com article, with information that the USGA has already been out to look at the course: http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/ferry-point-new-york-city-could-see-us-open

WSJ article with quotes from Nicklaus and Trump: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304330904579137772016610180

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2013, 11:22:47 AM »
Only 11 years after this initial thread ("Has anyone heard or seen anything about the Nicklaus designed Ferry Point GC...?) ....

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,4764.0.html

This morning was the ribbon cutting at Ferry Point. While the Donald says that there will be some "public events" in 2014 and the course is slated to open in Spring 2015, according to the WSJ. Some related media coverage below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304330904579137772016610180.html

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Trump-Links-at-Ferry-Point-nears-public-opening-as-construction-work-concludes/2914/Default.aspx

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/23704641/ribbon-cutting-at-new-bronx-golf-course

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/ferry-point-new-york-city-could-see-us-open

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2013, 07:29:23 PM »
Add one more, this time from John Steinbreder:

http://ow.ly/pQu1a


I played it a week back with John and we were both very impressed with what has been accomplished. This course is very special regardless of one's view of any of the ribbon-cutting principals. It's a home run for public golf in the NYC metropolitan area. I'm very glad it'll have a few extra months to grow in before it becomes publicly available.

Cheers

S

The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2013, 08:01:29 PM »
I can't imagine anyone equating the dune landforms at FP with anything at GC or Loxahatchee.

I doubt anyone, at least on this site will ever forget Nicklaus mounding at Loxahatchee, Grand Cypress or others during that phase of his career.  I do agree that some of the mounding at Ferry Point looks over the top.


Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2013, 08:27:42 PM »
I can't imagine anyone equating the dune landforms at FP with anything at GC or Loxahatchee.

I doubt anyone, at least on this site will ever forget Nicklaus mounding at Loxahatchee, Grand Cypress or others during that phase of his career.  I do agree that some of the mounding at Ferry Point looks over the top.



Joel,

   I won't even begin to try to defend Jack's mounding at Loxahatchee or Grand Cypress....that's most definitely over the top. Have you yet seen Ferry Point live and in person? I think not, for if you have, you'd hardly find the mounding there anywhere near to over the top.

   There is no reasonable way to separate holes from each other on a perfectly flat, featureless site without the use of some form of delineating matter. Only trees, water, thick vegetation or dirt can serve that purpose and the first two would have created a ludicrous aesthetic (think Shadow Creek). The third only slightly less so and perhaps even more maddening for it's intended public audience.

 At Ferry Point, Jack's mounding is tasteful and restrained, and serves to define the playing lines without incessant and superficial imposition. The mounds do not swallow up balls in a sea of fescue like Liberty National. Yes, it's a faux links (as are Whistling Straits and Bayonne GC) and there are some flaws to be found (though not with the routing), but they are minor and of a nit-picking nature. I've never been a huge JN design fan, but it's time to give credit where deserved and for a public course manufactured onto a flat former waste dump. To borrow from another thread, the initial site wasn't any "Doak 11," instead much closer to a "Doak 0," and Jack and his team did a very admirable job of producing a fun 18 holes.

  See it, walk it, and even play it before accusing it. :-*
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:30:35 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Mike Sweeney

Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2013, 08:59:14 PM »
Wow.

Had no idea that it is now playable. I have not played in #NYC for 3-4 years but Steve's review sounds nice.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:17:05 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2013, 12:27:14 AM »
Trump was on Letterman Thursday night and talked about  Ferry Point.I couldn't find a clip on the part of the interview but  here's the show:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/late_show/video/ul6euPCE0iHu2qnpmZIcRe9_yOTtx78i/the-late-show-10-17-2013/

Oh, the golf course in the Bronx, the Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point . . . it's a golf course that the city has been working on for 27 years, but the city being the city, it never got close to being done. Bloomberg got Trump involved and the Donald got it up and running. It's what the Donald does . . .he gets things done. Not a bad reputation to have.


Trump said he built the course ...
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2014, 10:04:47 PM »
I got to play FPP in the preview period before it opens in 2015. Played it the same day I played Seawane, a classic course that has struggled a bit with restoration. 

FPP is not the next Sand Hills, but it is likely to be the second best public facility in metro NYC behind Bethpage State Park. I thought the middle portion of the course was very good.  There are aspects of the design that are a bit repetitive, but the end result is a product that should thrill the NYC publinks market.  Kudos to everybody who pushed through the bureaucracy and got this done.  I don't know what will happen when the course opens, but right now, with limited play, these greens are absolutely as good as it gets.

One other point, I would suggest reversing the nines.   The front is definitely the stronger of the two and may start a bit too difficult for pace of play.   Overall, a big positive for the public golf community in NYC. 


SteveOgulukian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2014, 07:17:39 AM »
Just what this city needs...another course with pace of play issues.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 05:40:54 PM »
Just what this city needs...another course with pace of play issues.

I wouldn't worry about it:  with all of the Millennials staying home, I bet the Saturday tee sheets will be empty. 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 06:29:57 PM »
Steve Lapper,

You really are a moron. ;D

Who cares about approach patterns and climb corridors ?

Don't you remember all of the international air traffic approaching JFK when we played GCGC ?

Don't you remember all of the flights taking off and landing near MRCC ?

Don't you remember the plane landing on the 5th fairway at MRCC on Memorial Day Saturday this year ?

Air traffic is irrelevant to the enjoyment you get when you play these courses.

One of LGA's runways is 4 and 220, so approach and take offs will skirt Ferry Point.
Who cares ?

Does the traffic at the TOC, Shinnecock and NGLA detract from those courses ?

Relax and enjoy Ferry Point.

If it was Mike Keiser instead of the Donald, they'd all be singing it's praises.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2014, 05:39:34 AM »
Steve Lapper,

You really are a moron. ;D

Who cares about approach patterns and climb corridors ?

Don't you remember all of the international air traffic approaching JFK when we played GCGC ?

Don't you remember all of the flights taking off and landing near MRCC ?

Don't you remember the plane landing on the 5th fairway at MRCC on Memorial Day Saturday this year ?

Air traffic is irrelevant to the enjoyment you get when you play these courses.

One of LGA's runways is 4 and 220, so approach and take offs will skirt Ferry Point.
Who cares ?

Does the traffic at the TOC, Shinnecock and NGLA detract from those courses ?

Relax and enjoy Ferry Point.

If it was Mike Keiser instead of the Donald, they'd all be singing it's praises.

Pat Mucci,

  It takes one to know one!

  I hereby no longer care about the roar of low glide path, final approach vector air traffic.

  Why the change of heart you might ask? Simple. I've begun the process of brokering a 20yr deal for Delta and Southwest to sponsor public golf at Ferry Point.

  After trying for decades to get Alitalia, Air France, and Virgin to sponsor the bar tab at GCMC, I've found manna in having the two giants of short-hop 737s drop their soon-to-be-missing luggage over Ferry Point. After all if the waste dump there can produce a $260MM money pit...what's a another dark hole for a few pieces of misplaced roller bags?

  I did enjoy Ferry Point and will provide a little more color in the days to come (after my short, but exhausting) caddying stint at the MGA Met Open this week).

PS...The dead-stick'er who used the 5th at MRCC was later interviewed and made a rather ludicrous claim: "That he'd heard the goyim was now being admitted onto such hallowed ground as members and thought he might drop in for a look!" Can't really be true, can it? :o
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2015, 03:42:19 PM »
Ferry Point releases greens fees.  


                                        Weekdays (Mon-Thurs)           Weekends (Fri-Sun) & Holidays
NYC resident                        
18 holes                                      $141                                         $169
Twilight                                       $108                                          $151
Seniors                                        $  87                                           --    
Juniors                                        $  54                                            --

Non-resident                      
18 holes                                      $190                                         $215
Twilight                                       $154                                          $197    
Seniors                                       $137                                            --
Juniors                                        $104                                            --

OTHER FEES
Golf cart: $35/per rider
Forecaddie: $35/per player
Caddie fee: $75/per bag

http://www.trumpferrypoint.com/Default.aspx?p=dynamicmodule&pageid=396938&ssid=319638&vnf=1

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2015, 03:47:12 PM »
Thanks, Howard. I had heard of the March 11 date for release of April tee times, but I hadn't seen the fees. Now that I see them, my--and I imagine many others'--first inclination is to ask, "When does twilight start?"

Charging the weekend rate on a Friday is just mean.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2015, 04:57:12 PM »
There ain't nothing muni about it, that's for sure. While I don't love how high the rates are for residents (twice as much as Bethpage Black), what really grinds my gears is how small the resident discount is relative to non-residents. Hopefully there is some tee-time access restriction for non-residents, especially on the weekends, but I won't hold my breath.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2015, 05:07:05 PM »
If anyone will admit to going to a Mets game,how bothersome are the planes?

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ferry Point Progress
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2015, 05:13:30 PM »
Cheap by NYC standards.
H.P.S.