[Mike Policano]

The price of $140 a club is a fair price given that the clubs have been refurbished.  Quality restoration requires regripping, stripping and preparing the shaft, straightening the shaft, removing the club head, cleaning and repinning the club head, whipping the hosel, oiling the club head to protect against rust and finnishing the shaft. Such restoration generally costs up to $75 per club. The swing weights of the clubs are very good and Tom Stewart clubs are amongst the best.

[Thomas Dai]

Tony.

Thanks for the further reference to Alfie Ward and the link to what appears to be a great time many of you had at Musselburgh back in 2007. I hope you play well when you meet up with him again next month.

I've now read Alfie's beautifully written piece in the 'In My Opinion' section herein. Having tried to locate his Abington course, which for those with no idea what we're writing about lies in a gloriously picturesque landscape near the River Clyde about half way between Glasgow and Carlisle. On Bingmap, it's exactly where two sections of sat-map join and you can't see a damn thing. I did find the general area on Googlemap but couldn't spot the Pavilion he mentions. I did however, find this interesting write up on the old Willie Fernie course - http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/scotland-63/central-west/lanarkshire/87-abington-lanarkshire.

As an aside, I love the word 'Pavilion' to describe what we these days call a clubhouse. Pavilion seems to conjure up a notion of a sedate and tranquil place with standards of decorum....... "Anyone care for cucumber sandwiches, tea and cake on the lawn?" etc.

Great tip about the BGCS. I like the sound/££ of the Gullane event....and the extra shots!

As to equipment, from my googling, the prices of replica/reproduction equipment does seem quiet high, for a UK-er that is. I did notice however, a company based near the Old Grey Toon selling refurbished original at lower prices.

Rich, "easier track, such as Carnoustie", great line, love it!

David, thanks for the link to the chap in Tain. Wish I'd known about him when I was up that way last year. Live and learn.

All the best.

[Steve Wilson]

Carl Johnson called my attention to this thread thinking that as I am currently playing hickories I might have something to add.

For the past few years I had been playing more and more of my golf with hickories and I had been using clubs i had picked up here and there.  I went through about four woods before I found one, I suspect to be nearly a century old, i could hit consistently into play.  Last fall while playing with this hodge podge set I had to go to a backup driving club because the sole plate on my go to club was coming loose.  Two or three holes later the head flew off my backup club.  At that point I decided to bite the bullet and buy some reproductions because I knew they would be more reliable.  And as someone on here replied to a snide inquiry about why anyone would want to play with reproductions, in their day the hickory players used new clubs.  And it was then that I decided to play hickories exclusively in 2013.
  

From the beginning I've been amazed at how high it's possible to hit the ball with the hickory shafted clubs.  I had always thought that it would be difficult with the older equipment to attain that kind of ball flight.  

The limitations you have with the modern game will follow you to the hickories.  I was never long off the tee and so i struggle with length even from the shorter tees, but I have noticed that my tee shots tend to run a lot more than they do with the modern equipment.

I was always a better iron player than with the woods (or metals).  But with the hickories, particularly the reproductions from Louisville Golf,I seem to hit better shots with the woods.  This is my impression and anecdotal rather than something I've charted.  I found the old niblicks with the narrow soles particularly susceptible to digging in if the stroke comes in the least bit fat.  My replica/reproduction short irons have wider smoother flanges and so they play, I suspect, more like modern clubs.

If you're playing hickories with people who are using modern equipment you will garner more attention than usual.  You may feel a little added pressure to perform.  Then again you might run onto the situation I did at Streamsong in March when the starter, noticing my clubs, asked "Mr. Wilson, would you like a wooden tee or a pinch of sand."

Curiously I have taken to hitting my tee shots off the ground.  Sometimes I bump the ground up to create a tee, but I find I am more consistent with this method.

You have gotten a lot of advice on this forum about obtaining clubs so I'll stay out of that.  They are out there and they are available and what you pay for them is up to you.  

A last word about my century old brassie that I use to drive with  I don't remember where I got it, but some time after i had it I noticed the maker's mark on the head of the club.  It wasn't entirely decipherable but I could make out "Waum??"  So I googled "Waum" and a golf course, Waumbek, in New Hampshire popped up.  When I googled the location I discovered the course was about twenty miles from where we going on vacation.  So I took the wood into the golf shop and told the manager "I've brought this fellow back to visit some of his friends."   I played the course, nothing to write home about as it was a resort course attached to one of the large hotels that occupied the White Mountains back in the days before air conditioning.  After getting the club refinished I was able to read the maker's name "Ernest Hall."

I also have a wood made by Alex Ross (or his assistants) at Detroit CC/Golf Club, but I don't use it.  It never was comfortable in my hands and as it's in mint condition I see not point in scuffing it up for lackluster results.

After this year i may go back to the modern equipment, but I think the hickory experience will be part of my game.  There's something inherently satisfying and aesthetically pleasing about the sounds and sensations of hickory golf.  

[Bill_McBride]

Since Wilson kicked my ass at Streamsong in singles on the Red, I suppose I could blame it on my abysmal play, but he really hits a lot of good shots with those beauties.   

[David Harshbarger]

I echo what Steve said about the old clubs, in his case with the maker's mark traced back Waumbeck club and Ernest Hall. When you put together a set instead of playing these clubs you play this club, with a distinct history and pedigree.  If this is the case throughout your set, it really is a different relationship with your equipment, as you don't have the advantage of consistent design and manufacturing the way you do with modern clubs.

For example, the jigger I play has an obscured maker's mark from leading added to the sole, as well as a St. Andrews bend in the shaft.  The head is still light, and if I hit the ball fat it's a diasaster.  However, it flights a beautiful low trajectory with a ton of roll, and little is more fun than playing it well when called for.

If you value consistency in your clubs, then I would think a set of Tad Moore's, Louisville's, or other contemporary hickory clubs would be a good choice. The Tad Moore's if memory serves, are based on designs from the very end of the hickory era, so you get a wider flange on the sole and there's a serviceable sand club.

The irons I've picked up online have had skinny soles with no flange, the kind of clubs that slice into the ground. Playing from sand with them is pure hell. No one would yell "get in the bunker" playing those.

I encourage you to try as many of hickory clubs as you can, and take the time to learn how each club has a personality.

[Thomas Dai]

Steve & David,
Thank you for your thoughts and kind advice. The more I read the more fascinated I become by the thought of trying hickories.
All the best

[Tom Dunne]

David, great point about sand play. The one "modern" hickory I use is a Tad Moore Sand Wizard. I had one of those giant, heavy spatulas for a while and finally just gave up. At some point I'll try to get it back in the bag but I'm pretty sure (considering the distinct lack of bounce on the thing) that it requires a change of technique. After playing with that for a while I concluded that the invention of the sand wedge is one of the five most significant innovations of the last century.

Interestingly, the other thing I find most difficult about hickory golf is actually putting. Those old butter knives have absolutely no forgiveness and are very light compared to everything I've ever used, going back to the Sam Snead two-way blade that I had as a kid.

[Matthew Mollica]

I'm a recent convert to hickory golf, and have really enjoyed playing it thus far. Searching and finding the odd club here and there, I've set about accruing a collection of 6 Stewart irons. I've often thought of the following quotes on my search to build a set - they echo so much of what has been said thus far in this great thread -

"In those happy, far-off times the collecting of a pack of clubs was the work of years; one had been picked up here and one there, and every club had its own history; a shaft was a living thing with an individuality of its own, and when it died it left a gap in society." - Bernard Darwin, A Fresh Start (Playing the Like, 1934)

and

"Hickory golf was a game of manipulation and inspiration; steel golf is a game of precision and calculation." - Peter Dobereiner


Tom, re: putting and weight - I totally agree. I've got a 1930 Calamity Jane, which is the best blade type putter I've used to date. Most people comment on the weight of it - surprised it is as heavy as it is. It has less loft than anything else of that era I have tried to date too. It's no fun using an old putter with 10 degrees of loft, obviously designed for slow bumpy greens of 90 years ago, on today's smooth surfaces stimping at 10+ . I have turned to a Schenectady putter to try and solve that problem and to date it is working really well. A heavy centre-shafted mallet type putter - no wonder Walter Travis used it.  

Sand play is tough with this equipment. I suppose I just accepted that hazards had real teeth back in the day, and that it is best to give some of them a very wide berth rather than be faced with the need to escape with a niblick.

I hope you have as much fun as I have thus far Thomas Dai - hickory golf is very stimulating. I remember someone posting years ago that Ran played an old classic course with hickories, as he wanted to get inside the mind of the designer, by using the equipment of the era in which the course was designed. I also remember thinking he was nuts at the time - now I know it was I who was nuts!

Matthew

[David Harshbarger]

Tom and Matthew,

My inability to consistently advance my brassie from the tee has led me to put most of my hickories aside for daily play.  One exception is my putter, a Wilson "9 Putter" butter knife style from their Walker Cup line.  Not familiar with that one?

The 20's saw the rise of the matched set, as I understand it, and this putter must have rounded out a set, I'm guessing a department or sporting goods store offering.  For me, it's the right weight to hold steady in a tight frame, and being a short blade style, also works well for little chips as well as long whacks from well off the green (20-30+ yards).  

There's something psychologically liberating knowing your putter is just 1 of 9 clubs of play.  Why not just whack it with it from wherever?

Thomas, enjoy your journey into the old clubs.

Dave

[Matthew Mollica]

While I have the ear of hickory players, does anyone know how I may acquire a copy of Ralph Livingstone's book on Thomas Stewart? I have emailed Krista through Ralph's website but am not sure how regularly (if at all) that email address is able to be checked these days. Thanks for any replies...

Matthew

[Mike Policano]

Matthew,

I had gone back and forth with Ralph a number of times. He only printed 75 hard copies of his book because he didn't think many would be interested. I think they sold out in a week. He had some paperback copies but I don't know of any of those are left.

[John Mayhugh]

I remember someone posting years ago that Ran played an old classic course with hickories, as he wanted to get inside the mind of the designer, by using the equipment of the era in which the course was designed. I also remember thinking he was nuts at the time - now I know it was I who was nuts!

This hits rather close to home for me.

[Brian Finn]

I have started assembling a set of hickories recently. Kevin Lynch got me really interested last year when he let me hit a few shots with his hickories in Pinehurst.  Mac and Tom Dunne both gave me some great input and encouraged me to give hickories a go, and most recently seeing Steve Wilson hit his hickories very nicely in WV inspired me.  So, I bought a vintage hickory putter and a few other period clubs to check them out.  Likely only the putter will be a player, but may refurb one or two others. Today, I received my 50 degree niblick from Mike Just at Louisville Golf, and it is a true work of art. It has such a nice weight and feel to it.  I can't wait to round out a play set and tee it forward on some classics!

[David Harshbarger]

Brian, is that wedge still conforming?

[Brian Finn]

Brian, is that wedge still conforming?

For SoHG competitions?  I am not sure. Honestly, I am simply planning on having fun, and won't likely compete.

The website listed it as 'approved by SoHG.'  Is that outdated?

[Mac Plumart]

Oh you're competing!  New Albany, Ohio 2014 buddy.  And you are goin' down!!!

[Brian Finn]

Oh you're competing!  New Albany, Ohio 2014 buddy.  And you are goin' down!!!

Trust me, I did not forget.

i just can't believe how eager you are to play Winding Hollow.

PS...I will break you.

[David Harshbarger]

Brian, is that wedge still conforming?

For SoHG competitions?  I am not sure. Honestly, I am simply planning on having fun, and won't likely compete.

The website listed it as 'approved by SoHG.'  Is that outdated?

The USGA rules are outdated, as the club face rules stipulate parallel grooves which weren't the norm back then, apparently.  I'd like to add some conforming hickories to my set, as I really like them, but want them for regular play, too.  So, while any sane person would say my jigger with the st. Andrews bend is not giving an advantage, the curvature in the shaft plus the fanned grooves (what's left of them) don't conform, so I take it out of my bag when playing anything by "the rules".

[Brian_Ewen]

PAOLO QUIRICI FROM SWITZERLAND WINS WORLD HICKORY OPEN
06 October 2013

NEWS RELEASE
ISSUED BY Carnoustie Country

After three days of top-class hickory golf on two historic Carnoustie Country golf courses, the World Hickory Open 2013 was won by Swiss golf professional Paolo Quirici. 

“What a highly enjoyable event,” said Paolo, who only took up hickory golf two years ago.  “It was like going back in history, providing a reminder of what golf used to be – and what golf should be. Let’s do it all again next year!”

Tournament organiser Lionel Freedman explained that the World Hickory Open is a two-day tournament playing with hickory-shafted golf clubs and, in keeping with the ethos of the tournament, the competitors all dress impeccably in golfing outfits inspired by the golfers of the 1920s and 1930s.

“This year’s World Hickory Open was played on Montrose Medal, a Carnoustie Country golf course with a golfing heritage stretching back over 450 years, which certainly added to the historic atmosphere of the event,” said Lionel, who co-founded the World Hickory Open nine years ago. 

“This tournament is much more than a recreation of golf’s glory days – it’s an opportunity for some of the world’s best hickory golfers to test their skills against each other on top notch links courses.
"Every year, the standard of golf played in the World Hickory Open soars higher and this was certainly highlighted by this year’s tournament, which was played on a challenging course and in sometimes difficult weather conditions.”

Golf professional Andrew Marshall from Norfolk was runner-up in the World Hickory Open, with Gregor Wright (Ladybank) in third place.
The winner of the ladies competition was 18-year-old Swedish golfer Frida Rydberg, a first time competitor who had travelled to Carnoustie Country from Stockholm with her parents, who were also competing in the tournament.
“It was great fun to play here,” said Frida. “The courses are so very different from those in Sweden.”

Despite the second round of the tournament being accompanied by heavy rain and strong winds, Mike Stevens, several times National Hickory Champion of America, had a wonderful time at the World Hickory Open. “My second day on Montrose Medal was tough – but it was still very enjoyable,” said Mike, who is a golf professional in Tampa, Florida.  “Playing on Montrose Medal, with its long, illustrious history, really added to the favour of the event and made it very special.”

Paul Adams was a member of the three-strong South African team. “Montrose Medal is a superb golf course,” he said. “Playing a shot with hickory clubs is difficult enough but at Montrose, I also had to learn how to play the course, which was a huge but incredibly rewarding challenge. In addition, I loved the practice round at Ashludie, which is another Carnoustie Country Gem.”

As the World Hickory Open 2013 came to a close, Lionel Freedman confirmed that the World Hickory Open will be returning to Carnoustie Country in 2014, when it will be held at Panmure Golf Course on 7-8 October, 2014.
“At this year’s tournament, the courses were in excellent condition, the facilities were first rate and our 100 hickory golfers from across the globe were given a wonderful, warm welcome. We couldn’t possibly go anywhere else next year!”

To find out more about the World Hickory Open 2014, or to download an entry form, visit www.worldhickoryopen.com. To find out more about Carnoustie Country and the Carnoustie Country Festival of Golf, visit www.carnoustiecountry.com/festival 2013.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

A great weekend in Pinehurst is quickly approaching – for fans of Ross, architecture, and hickories...

The Mid Pines Hickory Open is Friday, November 8th through Sunday, November 10th.  This will be a great chance to play hickories on the recently-restored Ross gem, Mid Pines.

http://pineneedles-midpines.com/golf-news-events/themed-events.cfm

http://i11797.wix.com/hickory-open#!

On Sunday afternoon, Mullocks Auctioneers will be hosting auction with the late-Ralph Livingston III's collection.  Ralph was a hickory evangelist, GCA-contributor, and proud member of The Kingsley Club.  He passed away last August after a long and brave fight against cancer.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-ralph-livingston/

http://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/auction-14-golfing_memorabilia.html

Last, Brad Klein and Golfweek will be hosting an architecture summit beginning on Sunday - Tom Doak will be a featured speaker, along with Tom Fazio and Rees Jones.  It should be a great discussion.

http://store.golfweek.com/Registration/index.asp?EventID=64

This is promising to be a great weekend in Pinehurst...

[Howard Riefs]

Then again you might run onto the situation I did at Streamsong in March when the starter, noticing my clubs, asked "Mr. Wilson, would you like a wooden tee or a pinch of sand."

Just one of the many great memories from that Streamsong trip.

[Thomas Dai]

Brian, is that wedge still conforming?

For SoHG competitions?  I am not sure. Honestly, I am simply planning on having fun, and won't likely compete.
The website listed it as 'approved by SoHG.'  Is that outdated?

The USGA rules are outdated, as the club face rules stipulate parallel grooves which weren't the norm back then, apparently.  I'd like to add some conforming hickories to my set, as I really like them, but want them for regular play, too.  So, while any sane person would say my jigger with the st. Andrews bend is not giving an advantage, the curvature in the shaft plus the fanned grooves (what's left of them) don't conform, so I take it out of my bag when playing anything by "the rules".

I imagine this may well have come up before, but if you're playing with clubs that are say 100 yrs old, should you not also be playing by the Rules of Golf that were in force 100 yrs ago, which would thus include any yee olde Rules regulating equipment?

In addition, with regard to the Press Release issued by Carnoustie Country (the one that Brian very kindly provided the weblink to) stating that the 2014 World Hickory Open will be held at Panmure, I thought it was going to go to Westward Ho!/RND to coincide with their 150th anniversary celebrations. Or is it a case of two different hickory events but with a similar name?

As an aside, I notice that this years winner of the 'World Hickory Open', Paulo Quirici, and the 2007 & 2011 winner, Lloyd Saltman, are, or in PQ's case were, Touring Pro's.

All the best

[Jud_T]

Yeah,
But how's Paolo's stymie game?

[David Harshbarger]

Thomas,  It's a good thing, generally, that the rules progress as they remedy issues that were not considered in previous iterations.  

The thing with the hickory club faces, parallel lines, etc. is that those rules were introduced in 2008! Maybe someone smarter than me knows why, now, there were rule changes that impact such a wide swath of clubs.

For the tournaments that cap clubs to a certain vintage, Going back to those rules makes more sense.  Then maybe we'd get some insight into Paolo's stymie game.

Great to see some ex-pros playing in these hickory tournaments,  

[Thomas Dai]

Thank you all for your help and advice on hickories, both on this DG and also via PM. I have now acquired a few hickories and with an admittedly health limited amount of play so far, have found them very enjoyable to play. They (so far!) don't seem to be as difficult to hit as I'd imagined and are terrific around the greens. Swinging with rhythm seems key (isn't is always!), no 'hitting' at the ball, smooooth swinging only. Driver is not easy, probably needs more loft. Fairway wood, flights like a modern hybrid. Irons sharp edged, narrow flange equals bigger divots than accustomed, ball flight lower but fine. Bunkers - firm, wet sand - open blade just like normal. Dry, soft bunker sand - possible but well no wonder Messrs Hagen/Sarazen etc came up with their versions of the modern sand-iron head. Putting, interesting, tiny sweet spot, lots of loft, change in technique needed. Need to try an age-appropriate ball sometime, currently using 'soft' modern ball (no way I'd use a 'rock' ball).

One of my reasons for trying hickories is to appreciate yee olde architecture better although I've not yet played a yee olde course from the late 18th century-early 19th century with hickory so nothing yet to report, except that pretty obviously really, hazards out of range with modern equipment are in range with hickory and the ball rolls more/flights lower.

Thanks again for the help and advice.

All the best

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