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Thomas Dai

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Hickory players - thoughts and advice
« on: September 12, 2013, 06:52:50 AM »
There are a few folk posting here who are hickory players. I'm interested in giving hickory a go so I'd be much obliged if you could advise how you yourself got into hickory golf, where you got your equipment from, how do you maintain your original/refurbished/replica clubs, has it been costly etc? I'm aware that there are quite a few hickory related websites but which ones offer the best service etc?

Any advice would be most welcome.

All the best

PS - I spotted this Carnoustie hickory event when web-surfing - http://www.carnoustiecountry.com/Events/Event3889.aspx - the dates clash this year but in the future.........
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:28:57 PM by Thomas Dai »

Tom Dunne

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 09:33:11 AM »
Thomas,

For replica sets, Tad Moore and Louisville make good ones. I've gathered you're based in the UK, so the St. Andrews Golf Co. might also be a good option if you want to go down that road. Many others, though, choose to scour eBay or the Society of Hickory Golfers website, or even attend a Golf Collectors Society confab in order to find the vintage stuff. http://www.hickorygolfers.com/ is always a good resource.

I've sourced almost all of my hickories through eBay and have almost completed a set of Tom Stewarts. The thing about that is that you then have to pass them along to a skilled artisan and have them restored. Bobby Jones didn't play with shot grips, after all, and neither should you. We're lucky to have a terrific club restorer in the NY area (Tim Alpaugh), but maybe there's someone in the UK who can bring hickories back to life through new grips, whipping, etc. It's more time-consuming, but for me this path has proven to be considerably less expensive than purchasing a new set from one of the replica makers. Plus, you have a playable set of antiques at the end of the day, which has a certain appeal of its own.  

If you decide to go vintage, most of the best stuff from that era came from Scotland/England. Manufacturers to look out for include Tom Stewart, George Nicoll, Wright & Ditson, JH Hutchinson, Gibson, Forgan, Ben Sayers...probably many more I'm forgetting at the moment.

Hope this helps,

Andrew Lewis

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 09:57:01 AM »
Hi Thomas,

I started playing hickory a few years ago.  My first round was an afternoon loop at Ballyneal, and I have since played numerous times in the States at linksy places like Kingsley and Bandon, as well as some of the older-school Ross courses here in Chicago.

Unlike Tom Dunne, I had neither the time nor patience to build out and restore a set of vintage clubs when I took it up.  I thus ordered a set from Louisville Golf (http://www.louisvillegolf.com) which have been phenomenal.  A friend on the board here plays and really likes the Tad Moore clubs.

My one quibble with the Moore clubs I have seen is that the heads/faces don't seem to rust out in the same way the Louisville clubs do.  The Moores thus look more like modern blades with wooden shafts aesthetically, versus the more vintage/darkened look of the Louisvilles.

If you wish to go vintage, I would point you to the forthcoming auction of the late Ralph Livingston's painstakingly sourced and maintained collection of Tom Stewart clubs.  It is scheduled during a hickory event in the Pinehurst, NC area this November.  This group http://www.mullocksauctions.co.uk/ is overseeing the auction; I'm sure you could contact them for a catalogue.

Best, Andrew

Jud_T

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 10:16:56 AM »
Thomas,

If you are a righty player it should be fairly easy to assemble a set of Tom Stewarts, and the hunt itself is fun.  Hitting a shot solidly with one of these classic clubheads is an exquisite thing.  Check out the auction Andrew mentioned.  Ralph's collection is exhaustive.  I'm sure there are some skilled workmen in the UK who can regrip, refurbish etc. and it shouldn't be too costly.  If you are really looking to compete in tournaments etc., or don't have the interest in the thrill of the hunt, check out some of the repros.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Policano

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 11:07:51 AM »
Thomas,

The above replies are spot on. As Tom suggests, your next stop should be the Society of Hickory Golfers website. They have an excellent article on assembling a set of hickories that gives a very informative view of reproductions and originals.

The St. Andrews Golf Club Company has a small store near Aucherloni's (sp?)and their factory is about  20 minutes away in Fife. They probably can source and repair original's for you if you want. Please NOTE most tournaments in Europe do not allow reproductions for play. Please look into this since you may well wind up playing in tournaments. Virtually all tournaments in the US allowed approved reproductions.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 11:16:05 AM »
Thank you all very much for your thoughtful advice. Some really good tips that I would never have thought of. Much appreciated. Any other advice fro many other reader would be very welcome.
All the best.

Ken Moum

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 01:40:59 PM »
Because I am an unrepentant golf club whore I just bought a bunch of clubs on eBay.  I used a search of "hickory -callaway" to sort out the Callaway Hickory Sticks, which are actually steel shafts inside a hickory exterior.

Over time I accumulated enough to put together enough clubs for a "big" set of 14 clubs or probably two or three shorter sets. Plus i have quite a few spares. The irons turned out to be easier than woods, in fact the woods have been fairly problematic.  I think I bought 10 or so to get enough to play with.

The one thing I learned is that a lot of them have been cut off over the years and the owners don't necessarily realize it.

Since I have been fooling around with club repair since the 1970s, I have most of the skills I needed to work on them myself. Things like rewhipping woods, reattaching heads, etc aren't really all the tough.  I cracked a couple of shafts and figured out that buying left-handed clubs and salvaging the shafts worked, as did gluing them with polyurethane glue and wrapping them with whipping. The one thing I learned is that a lot of them have been cut off over the years and the owners don't necessarily realize it.

I came up with a solution for loose iron heads that doesn't require any tools and so far (4-5 years) has kept the heads tight.  I saw a glue for loose furniture spindles that claimed to expand the wood and lock it in, that appeared to be cyanocrylate so I got out a bottle of super glue and put a drop onto the joint between the head and shaft.  

It sucked it right in, so I kept putting it in until no more would go. Then I wiggled the head to "pump" the glue further down and repeated until it wouldn't take any more. The glue appears to have made the wood swell and it locked it in place.

I have regripped a few with some leather grip straps that I had laying around from other clubs, but they are too short, so I have been working on alternatives. One thing I do is try to get them as clean as possible. I am sure that the grips weren't all black and shiny when they were built.  I have actually aggressively scrubbed a few and discovered that they were originally red.

I have saved a few by cleaning and putting on some Leather Therapy Restorer and Conditioner.  For some really bad grips, I found that sanding the glaze off with coarse sandpaper then applying Leather Therapy works great.

Finally, I just bought part of a cowhide from a Tandy Leather store in Albuquerque and plan to cut some strips to wrap on rough side out.

BTW- I don't feel bad about using 14 clubs, as this is the replica set of Jones' Grand Slam set


Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 03:04:41 PM »
Thomas,

As I think you are based on 'our' side of the Pond you should talk to Alfie Ward. If you email or IM me I can put you in touch. A few hours in his company is one of life's great treats.

Mark.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 06:08:11 PM »
My club celebrated its centennial last year and one event was a Hickory Tournament.  The Golf Historical Society of Canada supplied one player in each foursome with hickory clubs.  The fellow in my group was a retired school teacher name Paul Dietz who lives in Sarnia, Ontario.  He restores old clubs for a hobby.  I had him put together a set for me - I have about a 9 club set with Tom Stewart irons and a couple of woods.  I have used the clubs a few times this year but I will have to make more of an effort to do so in the future.  So if anyone in Canada wants hickories then Google him or IM me and I will give you his info.

About four years ago I was playing golf in North Berwick and I was a single and was joined up with some Swedes who were looking for a match.  They were in town for the world Hickory Open which was being held at Gullane that year over the next few days.  One fellow was a club pro and the other was about a 1 handicap.  I was amazed at how well the played with their hickories.  I am about a 11 handicap with slightly better than average length and they scored far better than I did and drove farther than I did - they were using Pro V1s.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 06:57:28 PM »
I have a fairly raggedy set that's been little used the past few years.  My pride and joy is the mashie niblick I bought at Laurie Auchterlonie's shop in
St. Andrews.  75 quid and a lovely thing.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 08:16:35 PM »
I'm interested in giving hickory a go

It's a slippery slope, my friend.  Walk away while you still can!! 

 :)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Sean_A

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 03:08:44 AM »
I too have wanted to try hickories, but don't really want to go the route of used because I don't have a clue what is good quality and what is good playability.  On the other hand, I looked into new hickories and they would be about $1000 for 6/7 clubs.  Thats a bit steep for an experiment.  Does anyone know of guys who will put sets together and make sure they are in good condition for a reasonable amount of money?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 04:08:54 AM »
PS - I spotted this Carnoustie hickory event when web-surfing - http://www.carnoustiecountry.com/Events/Event3889.aspx - the dates clash this year but in the future.........

Thanks for this Thomas.

Had not heard of this, might be a day out for me.

Andrew Lewis

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 08:21:28 AM »
I too have wanted to try hickories, but don't really want to go the route of used because I don't have a clue what is good quality and what is good playability.  On the other hand, I looked into new hickories and they would be about $1000 for 6/7 clubs.  Thats a bit steep for an experiment.  Does anyone know of guys who will put sets together and make sure they are in good condition for a reasonable amount of money?

Ciao

Sean -

If you're looking to wade before plunge:

(i) SOHG lists a few rental outfits on your side of the pond:  https://www.hickorygolfers.com/hickory-golf-club-set-rental_5134_ct.aspx.

(ii) Musselburgh apparently hires hickories:  http://www.musselburgholdlinks.co.uk/.  I have yet to play in the UK, but am increasingly envisioning my maiden voyage as a hickory trip.

Cheers, Andrew

Thomas Dai

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 09:13:53 AM »
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Very helpful.

How about a UK GCA hickory day sometime? Rental clubs and play somewhere short and eccentric and a bit yee olde, like say Painswick?

Anyone be interested?

Just throwing a thought into the air.

All the best.

Matt Schmidt

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 09:31:01 AM »
My one quibble with the Moore clubs I have seen is that the heads/faces don't seem to rust out in the same way the Louisville clubs do.  The Moores thus look more like modern blades with wooden shafts aesthetically, versus the more vintage/darkened look of the Louisvilles.
I am the guy Andrew referred to that plays the Tad Moore reproductions.  The Tad Moore clubs are stainless and only the really insecure players are ashamed to admit that they are playing reproductions and so want their clubs to rust to fool others into thinking the clubs are old.  Kind of sad, really.   :)

I have 6 or 7 Tad Moore clubs and 3 vintage, hodgepodge clubs I bought off eBay that are slightly warped, of different makes and greatly different swing weights (one of which has a stainless head which you will find was fairly common).  I notice very little difference in hitting the ball with any of my clubs and use all of them whenever I play with my hickories.  Falling victim to the romance of it all (see Mac's post re: slippery slope), I am going to purchase a matched set of vintage hickories in the near future.

The secret that hickory players do not want others to know is that hickories aren't much, if any, harder to hit than modern clubs.  You will have a bit less spin on some shots, but you will score about the same, assuming you play from an appropriate distance (e.g. about 500 yards less than you would with modern clubs).  In fact, I believe that most of the satisfaction/appeal of hickory clubs comes from the fact that everyone expects hickories to be very difficult to hit and so when you hit a great shot you feel as if you hit the shot rather than the club.

David_Tepper

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 09:41:43 AM »
Anyone looking to rent hickory clubs in the Scottish Highlands should contact Harry Bowden of Hickory Golf North, located in Tain. He has a large number of sets available for rent.

http://www.hickorygolfnorth.co.uk/

Mac Plumart

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 09:54:27 AM »
only the really insecure players are ashamed to admit that they are playing reproductions


 ;D ;D
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 10:04:45 AM »
only the really insecure players are ashamed to admit that they are playing reproductions


 ;D ;D

That's what I told my wife when I bought her a knock off purse.  Didn't fly.

I have a full set that I acquired though ebay that many on here used at our event at Cuscowilla.  It is amazing and eventually boring how easy they are to hit.  I just prefer to play the back tees with modern clubs.  Same effect, less pretense.

Rich Goodale

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 10:28:57 AM »
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Very helpful.

How about a UK GCA hickory day sometime? Rental clubs and play somewhere short and eccentric and a bit yee olde, like say Painswick?

Anyone be interested?

Just throwing a thought into the air.

All the best.

Great idea, Thomas, but nobody on this board could complete Painswick playing hickories.  We'd be much better off playing an easier track, such as Carnoustie.....
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 10:48:12 AM »
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Very helpful.

How about a UK GCA hickory day sometime? Rental clubs and play somewhere short and eccentric and a bit yee olde, like say Painswick?

Anyone be interested?

Just throwing a thought into the air.

All the best.


Thomas in an earlier post Mark mentioned Alfie Ward and we did have a GCA Hickory gathering with him
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28615.0.html

Alfie would happily arrange something like this again if we have a greater gathering in Scotland.

Happily I am in touch with Alfie and will be playing Golf with him next month.   I predict he’ll be back on these pages before the year is out!


You should also consider joining The British Golf Collectors Society who have regular meetings where players are encouraged to paly with Hickories.  Due to their connections these can offer some excellent deals. This summer I played Gullane 1 with a dinner upstairs afterwards for £60!  The Hickory players were allowed an extra 2 shots per 9 and the winner of the event was playing Hickories and collected 39 points.  You can always play with normal sticks until you gain confidence.
I ‘ve gathered a mismatched set on eBay and as a mid capper I would say 2 a side is not enough help for someone who gets them out once a year.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jud_T

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2013, 11:02:28 AM »
Here you go, although personally I prefer leather grips.  Equivalent to one round at Pebble and 1 night at the lodge:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Hickory-Wood-Shaft-Tom-Stewart-Iron-Set-Golf-Clubs-/310742909133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4859b880cd
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 11:09:05 AM by Jud T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2013, 11:08:51 AM »
Here you go.  Equivalent to one round at Pebble and 1 night at the lodge:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Hickory-Wood-Shaft-Tom-Stewart-Iron-Set-Golf-Clubs-/310742909133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4859b880cd


I'm no expert but the mix of horizontal groove and 'spot' clubs suggests this is not a 'matched' set?
Very steep price IMO
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jud_T

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 11:15:54 AM »
Tony,

If you find a matched set of original Stewarts that have been fully refurbished for less, I'd be surprised.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

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Re: Calling all hickory players. Advice please.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 11:47:06 AM »
Playing with $5 balls also makes one really appreciate courses where you can finish with the same ball you started with:

http://www.mcintyregolf.com/

Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

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