Most overlooked golf city?

[Tim_Weiman]

Brian,

We are not on the same page. Cleveland's strength is public golf. Affordable public golf.

We have many well travelled golf architecture junkies here at GolfClubAtlas. If you go play Cleveland Metroparks courses like Sleepy Hollow or Manikiki you won't find many people like that, but those are great examples of what makes affordable golf in Cleveland so great.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I will cast another ballot for Minneapolis.  It doesn't get as much press as it deserves because the season is so short.  This season was a little different but my son's club did not open til the middle/end of April.

I live outside DC and it certainly flies under the radar--but it deserves to.

[BHoover]

Brian,

We are not on the same page. Cleveland's strength is public golf. Affordable public golf.

We have many well travelled golf architecture junkies here at GolfClubAtlas. If you go play Cleveland Metroparks courses like Sleepy Hollow or Manikiki you won't find many people like that, but those are great examples of what makes affordable golf in Cleveland so great.

Sure, Ohio has some good public options, but I don't think we can definitively say that the strength of Ohio is good public golf. Not to the extent of Indy or NYC. I was wrong to overlook the Metroparks courses, that's true. And there is obviously Granville down here in central Ohio. But I don't think the rest of the state has a wealth of good public courses.

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

Why don't you give the geography lesson to Tom Doak. He is the one who proposed Newark. Are you telling me he was talking about courses within the city limits of Newark?

[Phil McDade]

Brian,

We are not on the same page. Cleveland's strength is public golf. Affordable public golf.

We have many well travelled golf architecture junkies here at GolfClubAtlas. If you go play Cleveland Metroparks courses like Sleepy Hollow or Manikiki you won't find many people like that, but those are great examples of what makes affordable golf in Cleveland so great.

Tim:

I'd argue the depth of privates in Cleveland (top 10) trumps Milwaukee. And the top-tier publics are comparable -- the top 2 in Milwaukee are Erin Hills and Brown Deer -- is that appreciably better than Sleepy Hollow and Manakiki?

Arguing Cleveland vs. NYC, Philly or Chicago is probably silly. But Cleveland vs. Milwaukee is a decent debate -- I'd side w/ Cleveland.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why don't you give the geography lesson to Tom Doak.

Because I don't think he needs one.
I'm fairly certain he knows the difference between Newark, Bayonne and Jersey City.

He is the one who proposed Newark.

Yes, he did.

Are you telling me he was talking about courses within the city limits of Newark?


It would appear so, since he did cite Newark and not Bayonne or Jersey City.

[Ryan Kennedy]

I'll throw in traverse city, Michigan.

Arcadia Bluffs
Crystal Downs
Kingsky Club
Tullymore
Forest Dunes

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

They may be outside the city limits, but they are closer to the city center that those other dog tracks like Baltusrol and Mountain Ridge.

Besides if you took the time to give geography lessons to all those pushing city limits on this thread, you wouldn't have time to aggravate all the people on the other threads where you spread your aggravation.

[Sam Morrow]

OKC is pretty solid and a nice place to visit.

[Mark Pearce]

Good luck getting to any of the heathland courses, or Deal, or Sandwich, or anywhere else worth playing, in an hour from central London.

As to Sean's "Manchester" list, the good people of Leeds won't be the only ones dismayed to see places like Alwoodley and Moortwon described as Manchester courses.  I can't imagine the people of Hoylake being overjoyed to see Royal Liverpool (the clue is in the name) described as a "Manchester" course.  In fact, doesn't Liverpool belong on this list above Manchester?

[Sean_A]

Good luck getting to any of the heathland courses, or Deal, or Sandwich, or anywhere else worth playing, in an hour from central London.

As to Sean's "Manchester" list, the good people of Leeds won't be the only ones dismayed to see places like Alwoodley and Moortwon described as Manchester courses.  I can't imagine the people of Hoylake being overjoyed to see Royal Liverpool (the clue is in the name) described as a "Manchester" course.  In fact, doesn't Liverpool belong on this list above Manchester?

In the context of a city being a golf destination, do you expect courses to be 15 minutes from the centre?  In a large way, there really aren't great golfing cities because not many people spend much time in the city while on a trip.  I mean, does anybody stay in the centre of Manchester (or Liverpool) for five days to play golf?  

The last "city" golf holiday I took was to Philadelphia.  I never really considered staying in the centre, but I did stay in the city at Chestnut Hill. It didn't feel like Philly, but it was the perfect combo for accessing courses by car, being in a pedestrian area (very small town feel actually) with bars and restaurants yet the city is very close via train.  I would do that trip again in heartbeat.  I think that sort of city golf trip is a far more pleasant thought and likely more doable as some cities will have lovely outlying areas which haven't been overly suburbanized by the car.  

Ciao

[Tom Kelly]

Are Liverpool or London really "overlooked"?

I may be biased but Nottingham isn't exactly a golf tourist hot spot yet there are some great courses nearby.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Are Liverpool or London really "overlooked"?

I may be biased but Nottingham isn't exactly a golf tourist hot spot yet there are some great courses nearby.

I tried my hardest to organise a golf trip to Nottingham last year - Hollinwell, Sherwood Forest, Lindrick & Coxmoor.... But we didn't want to stay in the city and try as I might, I just couldn't find the right hotel in the right location for our needs... So we went elsewhere... Next time maybe...

[Sean_A]

Are Liverpool or London really "overlooked"?

I may be biased but Nottingham isn't exactly a golf tourist hot spot yet there are some great courses nearby.

I tried my hardest to organise a golf trip to Nottingham last year - Hollinwell, Sherwood Forest, Lindrick & Coxmoor.... But we didn't want to stay in the city and try as I might, I just couldn't find the right hotel in the right location for our needs... So we went elsewhere... Next time maybe...

Yes, very awkward area to stay.  The East Midlands tends to be a hit n' run area.

Ciao

[Tom Kelly]

Any reason for not wanting to stay in the city? It is actually very nice despite the bad press it has received over the last few years.
Admittedly the areas nearer to the good courses north of the city aren't great, Worksop, Mansifield and Kirby in Ashfield are fairly grim but if you want to stay in the countryside then the Chatsworth/Bakewell or Matlock areas are only 30-45 mins drive from the courses mentioned, have great access to the peak district and Cavendish which is obviously a GCA favourite is only 30 mins in the other direction. It makes it more of Nottingham-Derby trip but it could be quite nice. Or stay over towards Lincoln and add in Woodhall Spa or even a trip over to the Lincolnshire coast?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Any reason for not wanting to stay in the city? It is actually very nice despite the bad press it has received over the last few years.
Admittedly the areas nearer to the good courses north of the city aren't great, Worksop, Mansifield and Kirby in Ashfield are fairly grim but if you want to stay in the countryside then the Chatsworth/Bakewell or Matlock areas are only 30-45 mins drive from the courses mentioned, have great access to the peak district and Cavendish which is obviously a GCA favourite is only 30 mins in the other direction. It makes it more of Nottingham-Derby trip but it could be quite nice. Or stay over towards Lincoln and add in Woodhall Spa or even a trip over to the Lincolnshire coast?

Well this particular group of 16 don't put the quality of the golf first (that's for me to try and sort out) so I always need to get a hotel on the doorstep of at least one or two courses... Other than that I don't like to take them in the car over about 30 minutes... So Notts couldn't strike the 4 courses so easily...

Plus we've got old enough that the nightlife doesn't hold the same sway... So a comfortable country / village retreat is the ideal...

[Mike_Trenham]

West Palm Beach

[Adam Lawrence]

Central London minus the Heathlands is overlooked for a reason. Some of the golf courses (like Royal Mid Surrey, Royal Wimbledon etc) are decent tracks given their central locations but far from special, if we're being honest. Boston seems to me to be a good shout as it doesn't get spoken about all that often given the volume of quality courses in and around it. Manchester is also an excellent one but am I being unkind in saying it's a bit of a grim part of the world up there?

Very. Manchester is a delightful city with excellent facilities of all kinds - museums, galleries, nightlife - great public transport and lots of beautiful buildings. And the countryside is lovely. Only the weather is iffy. And I speak as a Yorkshireman!

[Tom_Doak]

Newark's got Bayonne and Liberty National.
That's the obvious thing most must know.

I was not thinking of either of those.

I was thinking that if we are talking a big radius around these big cities, then Newark would cover all of northern New Jersey ... which would give Minneapolis or Cleveland or even Chicago a run for their money.

[Mark Chaplin]

Woking is 24 minutes by train from Waterloo and there's around 9 fast trains an hour. The 3Ws, NZ, Wisley and West Byfleet are 10 minutes in a cab. I'd say you can get to decent courses in under an hour from most zone one tube stations.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mark is correct about the sheer quality of golf available in London but I think London is about as overlooked as Edinburgh. Glasgow must have a shout and maybe Newcastle. Having said that and painful as it is to say, Manchester or Liverpool do look like the top candidates.

Jon

[Keith Grande]

Tom,

Which courses in Northern Jersey in particular? 

[Mark McKeever]

Keith,
Quickly, the following come to mind in no particular order:

Somerset Hills
Morris County
Knoll West
Forsgate
Ridgewood
Mountain Ridge

[Keith Grande]

Thanks Mark.  

I played Forsgate last week.  I really enjoyed the Banks course, after just having played Yale at the GCA outing, it was fun to play Biarritz holes on back to back rounds.  

I do have to get out and play Knoll one of these days.  It's not too often that I see public tee times available on the West.

Back to Newark - if we include the radius, you will also get some nice courses on the North Shore/South Shore of Nassau Long Island, Westchester as well.

Although I doubt we'll ever hear a golf trip being arranged around "Newark"...

[Mark McKeever]

I've also heard a lot of good things about Rock Spring Club that Kelly Blake Moran is restoring in West Orange, NJ.