Most overlooked golf city?

[Martin Toal]

Ireland doesn't have many cities, so can I nominate a county?

Donegal, Ireland.

Donegal (Murvagh)
Ballyliffin
Rosapenna
Narin and Portnoo
Portsalon
Cruit Island
Northwest

[Phil McDade]

Given the amount of great golf there, there is very little discussion about Boston.

Seriously? Boston doesn't really strike me as being an under-the-radar golf city.

I don't know -- I saw Mark's comment and kind of agreed with it.

Beyond TCC, you really don't seen much in the way about Essex, Salem (which looked great when the Seniors played it at their US Open not long ago), Charles River, Brae Burn and some others (Myopia has had features taken down from this website, apparently, so great is their desire to fly under the radar). If you include Rhode Island (Newport, RI CC, Point Judith, Wannamoisett, several others), I think there's a good argument that the depth of Boston golf in particular with classic-era courses is hard to match.

[BHoover]

Minneapolis?

Beat me to the punch -- some real under-the-radar stuff -- I'm sure the GCA gang from the Twin Cities can weight in.

But-- alot of good stuff.

Ding.  

MSP is easily the most overlooked major metro area for the quality of golf. The areas depth is really solid and no one talks about it.

Great mix between classics and moderns:

White Bear
Minikahda
Interlachen
Hazeltine
Wind song Farm
Spring Hill
3 Raynors-Midland Hills, Somerset, Minnesota Valley
Minneapolis Golf Club
Town & Country
Woodhill
Oak Ridge
Keller
Wayzata
North Oaks
Edina
Etc
Etc

Lots of really neat stuff no one has heard of nor does anyone talk about.

I hate to admit it, but I think you may be right about Minneapolis. But, I don't think that Interlachen flies under the radar. And Hazeltine, regardless of what folks may think about it, is certainly well known.

So I'm thinking that Minneapolis and Clevelandrunning in the running. Portland too.

How about LA? It's not exactly unknown by any stretch, but does it get enough credit for being home to great golf? Compared to NYC and Philly and San Francisco, LA seems to be lesser known. But Riviera, LACC, Wilshire, Bel Air, etc. certainly don't take a back seat.

Bottomline is there is more great golf in the USA than just the Northeast.

[Mark Saltzman]

Given the amount of great golf there, there is very little discussion about Boston.

Seriously? Boston doesn't really strike me as being an under-the-radar golf city.

I don't know -- I saw Mark's comment and kind of agreed with it.

Beyond TCC, you really don't seen much in the way about Essex, Salem (which looked great when the Seniors played it at their US Open not long ago), Charles River, Brae Burn and some others (Myopia has had features taken down from this website, apparently, so great is their desire to fly under the radar). If you include Rhode Island (Newport, RI CC, Point Judith, Wannamoisett, several others), I think there's a good argument that the depth of Boston golf in particular with classic-era courses is hard to match.

Phil, exactly.

We all know TCC, and many will know Essex County, Salem, Myopia, Boston GC, Old Sandwich.

But there is a lot of depth.  Just off the top of my head..

Brae Burn
Concord
Vesper
Charles River
Black Rock
Worcester
Whitinsville
Winchester
George Wright (muni)
Red Tail (public)
TPC Boston
Tedesco
Belmont
Plymouth

And if we start to include Cape Cod or RI the list gets even deeper.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Newark's got Bayonne and Liberty National.

That's the obvious thing most must know.

Garland,

What's obvious is that you need a lesson in geography,  

Bayonne is in ...............Bayonne.

And, Liberty National is right up the street in Jersey City.

[Mark Saltzman]

Minneapolis?

Beat me to the punch -- some real under-the-radar stuff -- I'm sure the GCA gang from the Twin Cities can weight in.

But-- alot of good stuff.

Ding.  

MSP is easily the most overlooked major metro area for the quality of golf. The areas depth is really solid and no one talks about it.

Great mix between classics and moderns:

White Bear
Minikahda
Interlachen
Hazeltine
Wind song Farm
Spring Hill
3 Raynors-Midland Hills, Somerset, Minnesota Valley
Minneapolis Golf Club
Town & Country
Woodhill
Oak Ridge
Keller
Wayzata
North Oaks
Edina
Etc
Etc

Lots of really neat stuff no one has heard of nor does anyone talk about.

I hate to admit it, but I think you may be right about Minneapolis. But, I don't think that Interlachen flies under the radar. And Hazeltine, regardless of what folks may think about it, is certainly well known.

So I'm thinking that Minneapolis and Clevelandrunning in the running. Portland too.

How about LA? It's not exactly unknown by any stretch, but does it get enough credit for being home to great golf? Compared to NYC and Philly and San Francisco, LA seems to be lesser known. But Riviera, LACC, Wilshire, Bel Air, etc. certainly don't take a back seat.

Bottomline is there is more great golf in the USA than just the Northeast.

Depending on how far you're willing to stretch LA, there is some pretty good stuff...

Valley Club (too much of a stretch?)
Rustic
Soule Park
Hacienda
Victoria
Saticoy
Sherwood
El Cab
Lakeside
Bel Air...

[BHoover]

Given the amount of great golf there, there is very little discussion about Boston.

Seriously? Boston doesn't really strike me as being an under-the-radar golf city.

I don't know -- I saw Mark's comment and kind of agreed with it.

Beyond TCC, you really don't seen much in the way about Essex, Salem (which looked great when the Seniors played it at their US Open not long ago), Charles River, Brae Burn and some others (Myopia has had features taken down from this website, apparently, so great is their desire to fly under the radar). If you include Rhode Island (Newport, RI CC, Point Judith, Wannamoisett, several others), I think there's a good argument that the depth of Boston golf in particular with classic-era courses is hard to match.

You may be right. Certainly the area is blessed with lots of classic courses. I guess I'm saying that Boston isn't under the radar at least when it comes to the GCA crowd. But the general public probably knows TCC and TPC Boston.

[Dale_McCallon]

How about Chatanooga for a really off the radar pick.  Honors and Lookout get a lot of love here, but lots of other hidden gems.   Throw in Black Creek and Chatanooga CC and that's quite a line up for a pretty small town.

[Phil McDade]

I guess I'm saying that Boston isn't under the radar at least when it comes to the GCA crowd.  

Brian:

I'm not sure there is anything anymore that is under the radar for the GCA crowd. I mean, Doak just threw out Muir of Ord on another thread, and no one went "Huh?" (at least so far). I can see a GCA argument breaking out over the merits of Muir of Ord vs. Strathpeffer Spa, which is pretty much total GCA geek-dom, when you think about it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

You morons aren't even close.

It was a little town in NJ, West Orange

Essex Fells                Ross
Crestmont                Ross
Mountain Ridge         Strong, Travis, Tilllinghast, Raynor, Banks
Essex County West    Tillinghast & Banks
Essed County East      Bendelow, Findlay, AWT, Ross & Jones
Montclair (1 & 2)       Ross
Montclair (3 & 4)       Ross and Banks
Rock Spring               Banks

[Paul Gray]

So I guess we should do an overlooked city in the US and one outside the US? We also need some impartial commentators to weigh in. I'm obviously a Cleveland homer (proudly so).

Mark, I've been to the UK a couple times, although not for golf (unfortunately). My guess is that any place in England outside London gets overlooked. What are the courses in Manchester that deserve more attention?

Brian,

I'll suggest London itself gets overlooked. After all, how many excellent London courses are you aware of? And I'll give you a clue, Surrey heathland doesn't count!

[Tim Martin]

PROVIDENCE

Wannamoisett
Metacomet
Newport CC
Rhode Island CC
Point Judith CC
Sakkonet GC
Quidnesset
TPC Boston
Triggs Memorial
Wanumetonomy

[Tim Martin]

Newark, N.J.

Weequahic

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,

While Weequahic had some history, just up the street, there was a club that was extremely interesting.

It was a public golf course where gambling was legendary.

Gamblers would come from near and far to get in on some of the "action"

Joe Lewis, Marty Stanovich and many others

George Bahto is familiar with the goings on and the figures that teed it up at "Branch Brook"

[Tim Martin]

Tim,

While Weequahic had some history, just up the street, there was a club that was extremely interesting.

It was a public golf course where gambling was legendary.

Gamblers would come from near and far to get in on some of the "action"

Joe Lewis, Marty Stanovich and many others

George Bahto is familiar with the goings on and the figures that teed it up at "Branch Brook"

Pat-The few times I played at Weequahic there was no shortage of Damon Runyon characters hanging around. To watch the negotiations on the first tee and bets being settled was pretty entertaining. I gotta say that I would rather head over to Francis Byrne in South Orange for a taste of Charles Banks and no shortage of characters there either.

[Tim_Weiman]

Brian:

I am on record here saying many times that Cleveland is frequently overlooked as a city for golf, but there is a difference between "golf" - playing golf and "golf architecture" - an art form.

Cleveland excels as a place to play golf. It excels as a place for decent affordable golf for the working person. Also, the golfing season, while not as nice as some locations down South, is still longer than many might assume.

I grew up in New York and went to school near Philadelphia. As great as those locations are for golf architecture, I don't think they can compete when it come to playing golf. Certainly not for the average guy who doesn't belong to a private club.

Oh, I do agree Cleveland has some nice examples of golf architecture as well.

[Jon Wiggett]

I say Manchester in a walk. Just a tremendous depth and breadth within an hour's drive of the airport. The top tier across several types of courses is about as top as top gets and the second tier tops the first tier of many if not most cities anywhere. And as for overlooked, I think it's safe to say many in the South are not aware of much more than those few that pop up on televisions, and that goes double for those who live even farther away.

This is a good shout.  Within 1 hour of the city centre (who spends a golf holiday at the airport - gmafb)

Wallasey
Formby
West Lancs
Cavendish
Reddish Vale
Prestbury
Delamere Forest

Less than 1 hour 10 minutes

Hoylake
Moortown
Alwoodley
Birkdale
S&A

Ciao

Sean,

don't go giving our superior YORKSHIRE courses to them Lancashire lot especially as we Yorkshire men are still smarting after losing the war;)

Jon

[BHoover]

Brian:

I am on record here saying many times that Cleveland is frequently overlooked as a city for golf, but there is a difference between "golf" - playing golf and "golf architecture" - an art form.

Cleveland excels as a place to play golf. It excels as a place for decent affordable golf for the working person. Also, the golfing season, while not as nice as some locations down South, is still longer than many might assume.

I grew up in New York and went to school near Philadelphia. As great as those locations are for golf architecture, I don't think they can compete when it come to playing golf. Certainly not for the average guy who doesn't belong to a private club.

Oh, I do agree Cleveland has some nice examples of golf architecture as well.

Tim, you are right that Cleveland, and generally Ohio, does not have much in the way of architecturally significant public golf options, especially compared to other major metro areas. Sure there are a few examples of good public options here, but Ohio's golf strength comes from its private courses, not the publics.

[Josh Tarble]

I'm going to throw out Indianapolis.  We may not have quite the highs but a very deep field of high quality courses.

Private courses like Crooked Stick, Wolf Run, Broadmoor and Meridian Hills. A very strong group of publics such as the Fort, Trophy Club, Brickyard crossing. Throw in out of town venues like Rock Hollow, Harrison Hills, Kampen and Coyote Crossing in Lafayette and even French Lick (a bit of a stretch).

The publics are really where Indy shines. I'd put up the public courses in Area up against any metro area in the country...I do realize that is. Bit of a homer statement but really believe that to be true.

The other interesting aspect is the group of early Pete Dye courses and his contributions to the area. . It is very interesting to see his designs through the years from his first design at El Dorado on the south side to French Lick and everything in between.

Needless to say I think to depth of courses in Indy is excellent...certainly enough to keep someone entertained for a long time.

[Frank Pont]

In Europe its Amsterdam and Paris. Both have 5-10 great courses within 1.5 hour drive.

[Jon Wiggett]

In Europe its Amsterdam and Paris. Both have 5-10 great courses within 1.5 hour drive.

Surely it has to be Calais with Deal, Sandwich and R st.G within 1.5 hours

Milan has some good courses within 60 minutes.

Jon

[Frank Pont]

In Europe its Amsterdam and Paris. Both have 5-10 great courses within 1.5 hour drive.

Surely it has to be Calais with Deal, Sandwich and R st.G within 1.5 hours

Milan has some good courses within 60 minutes.

Jon

Agree with Calais, Milan doesn't even come close.

[Terry Lavin]

How's that for international perspective. Thanks, gents!

[Mark Chaplin]

In general golfer terms London by a mile and that includes Surrey and Berkshire. I often host overseas visitors who've been to Ireland and Scotland half a dozen times each before they make their first visit to South East England. I'd happily bet Brora, Luffness New, Prestwick St Nicholas and Ballyliffin get more overseas visitors than Rye, Deal, Walton Heath or The Berkshire.

[Jason Connor]

I've lived in Maryland, Texas, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and now Orlando.

And I say Cleveland. 

The fact that we'd alternate playing a Ross course and Thompson course each weekend, for $25 a pop (just 10 years ago) is amazing. Plus an assortment of great privates and other fine publics.