[Frank Pont]

Saw the use of Asphalt bunker liner in the thread on Philly Cricket Club



A lot of clubs in the UK struggle with drainage, stones coming up and wash outs due to heavy rain and sand stability on sand faces.

Many products have been used through the years such as Base sand, Synthetic liners, Sportscrete, Blinder but almost all have several problems:

- They disintegrate over time, leaving stones or rubber in the bunker
- They do not allow for steep sand faces, which occur on many of the classic (Colt/Simpson/MacKenzie) courses
- They requite a lot of bunker sand to avoid players hurting themselves by hitting the liner with their shot
- They can be damaged when mechanical bunker rakers are used
- They give problems at the transition areas from liner to grass edges

How does the shown Asphalt perform, and are there places where it has been in place for 5-10 years and still functions?

[Joe Bausch]

Frank,

Powell Arms will surely chime in here. 

To the best of my knowledge, the porous asphalt bunkers have been in place at the Militia Hill course at Philly Cricket for almost 5 years.  I think they've performed so well that they are using them on the currently being renovated Wissahickon course.

I believe one other prominent club in the Philly area has begun installing them too.

[Bill_McBride]

Could be tough on sand wedges if the sand gets thin. 

[K. Krahenbuhl]

They were installing the same on the West course at Merion the last time I was there.

[Frank Pont]

Any pics of the steepest faces it has been used on?

What sand depth is required to avoid hitting the asphalt with sand wedges?

[Joe Bausch]

Any pics of the steepest faces it has been used on?

Many pics here Frank, even the first few on the first hole at MH demonstrate what you want to see, I think:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/MilitiaHill/

 

[Mark McKeever]

Playing Militia Hill, I have never hit the base asphalt on a bunker shot.  And Ive had some pretty crappy plugged lies before.  So it must be maintained multiple inches deep to avoid bottoming out.

Mark

[Frank Pont]

Looking at the Matrixbunker website it looks like you need 4-6 inches of bunker sand above the asphalt.
How do you avoid getting many plugged balls during dry weather with that much sand? (my preference is 2 inches)

[Frank Pont]

Any pics of the steepest faces it has been used on?

What sand depth is required to avoid hitting the asphalt with sand wedges?

Our Superintendent watched a thunderstorm assault a 54 degree sloped bunker and the bunker did not wash out. That is what sold us on it. If you want would like, I'll see if he has images of that particular bunker.

We used www.matrixbunker.com.

If you have a picture of that steeper bunker that would be great, most of the bunkers that Joe shows have long but not very steep slopes.

[Patrice Boissonnas]

The Matrix website is crystal clear and strait to the point.

I am guessing the sand to fill in the bunkers must be carefully selected in order to optimize the liner's performance.
Also I am wondering what it takes to remove the liner should you want to change the bunker's shape or simply fix/replace a drain.

[Powell Arms]

Frank, as pointed out, at Philly Cricket we have been very happy with the performance of the matrix bunkers.  (After doing Militia Hill, Dan Meersman, our Director of Grounds,  patented the process and created MatrixBunker.com)

We installed the matrix liners on Militia Hill 8 years after it opened to replace traditional fabric liners.  And are happy enough to be using the matrix liner in the renovation of Wisshickon.  It was also used in the restoration of our 9 hole St Martins course.  As Kyle states, the system is in place on Merion West in 9 bunkers as the first stage of a bunker renovation project there.

The sand used in all cases in Valley Forge.  It seems to have the appropraite density to complete the system.  Like McKeever, I have never experienced bottoming out on a bunker with this system.

Video 18 here shows the system at Cricket in a Biblical rain storm, http://www.matrixbunker.com/photo-and-video-gallery/

Other photos and videos from the Philly Cricket maintenance blog:

     http://philacricketgm.blogspot.com/2009/12/militia-hill-bunker-work.html

     http://philacricketgm.blogspot.com/2009/12/photo-above-shows-how-greenside-bunker.html  This video has a very telling comparison
     of a steep sloped fabric bunker and a steep sloped matrix bunker in a driving rainstorm at Militia Hill.

I am not sure of the cost to demo and reshape an asphault lined bunker.  We have seen the cost for installation be very close to that of a traditional fabric lined bunker. The materials do cost a bit more, but the speed of the installation of the matrix asphalt product is at least 2 to 3 times faster than a traditional fabric liner, completing a bunker in 30-45 minutes.

[Frank Pont]

Powell,

thanks for the information, very interesting stuff.

Would be interesting to see the asphalt liner used in a more ragged edge style Simpson/MacKenzie bunkers.
Will the Merion bunkers have rougher edges?

[Powell Arms]

Powell,

thanks for the information, very interesting stuff.

Would be interesting to see the asphalt liner used in a more ragged edge style Simpson/MacKenzie bunkers.
Will the Merion bunkers have rougher edges?

I don't know how articulated the Merion West bunkers are. The bunkers we have done for Wissahickon do have much more subtle articulation in the edge than those for the Mikitia Hill course, which opened in 2002.

With the sodded surrounds, the articulated Wissahickon bunkers look great. I don't expect any unique problems created by this system contrasted to fabric.  But that is just conjecture.

A difference of note, Militia Hill has steep sand faces and many of the Wissahickon faces are grass with a relatively flat sand bottom.

[Thomas Dai]

Does anyone happen to know what method they used a few years ago when they completely overhauled all the bunkering at Wentworth (West)?
All the best.

[Jon Wiggett]

Frank,

I would be surprised if you were allowed to use it in the UK. My experience is that problem weeds are usually germinating in the sand rather than in the soil beneath it.

Jon

[Niall C]

Interesting to read Powell's comments that the cost of installation is similar to more traditional material. I suppose one of the cons is changing the shape of the bunker after installation but on the plus side in years to come it should be easy to renovate bunkers back to their original shape 

One question though, how ecological is the material ? Would it not contaminate surrounding soils ?

Niall

[Steve Okula]

In the UK, Murray Long the course manager at Sunningdale is selling a similar product for stabilizing bunkers that consists of porous crumb rubber, I believe. He calls it "Bunker Blinder".

[Niall C]

Steve

Is that like the stuff they put down on paths to ease the wear and tear ? If so, what is he using to bind it together, if anything ?

Niall

[Don_Mahaffey]

I know from first hand knowledge that in some states it is against the law to bury asphalt. Wonder how that is handled when asphalt is buried under sand.

I understand the maintenance issues, but count me in as a rare maintenance guy who likes to see bunkers weather, change, and morph into whatever forms the environment takes them. I know that sometimes means rebuilding, but I also think that rebuilding is sometimes a result of poor design in the first place.
 
Not a fan of the direction we are headed in golf. More money, more perfection, less interest.

[Frank Pont]

Not a fan of the direction we are headed in golf. More money, more perfection, less interest.

Don,

a big  +1

I hate putting anything other than sand in a bunker.

There are two things I do want to solve to help the green keepers life.

1. How to avoid stones coming up through the sand, and then being hit on the greens, thereby damaging the mowers
2. How to keep sand on the faces of classic Colt/Simpson through most of the rainfalls of the year.

[Joe Hancock]

Frank,

I may be going off topic at this point, but in regards to the stone-through-sand issue; Is it possible that the idea of sand bunkers was due to the soil/ environment of the original courses? Do sand bunkers truly belong on courses with stony/ clay/ other soils that don't well support the idea of sand bunkers?

If we have sand bunkers in non-sandy environments, there will be some forcing of the issue, be it liners/ rebuilds/ other expensive practices.

Joe

[Mike Policano]

Is Billy Bunker a similar product?

[Steve Okula]

Steve

Is that like the stuff they put down on paths to ease the wear and tear ? If so, what is he using to bind it together, if anything ?

Niall

I think it is exactly the same stuff used on paths, and that's where Murray got the idea. There is a binder, but I guess that's supposed to be a trade secret. I don't know what it's made of.

[Frank Pont]

Frank,

I may be going off topic at this point, but in regards to the stone-through-sand issue; Is it possible that the idea of sand bunkers was due to the soil/ environment of the original courses? Do sand bunkers truly belong on courses with stony/ clay/ other soils that don't well support the idea of sand bunkers?

If we have sand bunkers in non-sandy environments, there will be some forcing of the issue, be it liners/ rebuilds/ other expensive practices.

Joe

Joe, I am talking about Simpson and Colt courses that have 70-100 bunkers per course, and where underneath the sand layer is a layer of stones. I am not making a judgement if Colt or Simpson should have put bunkers there, maybe the players in the early 1900's were a lot more tolerant of stones, and we weren't mowing greens at 3mm yet....

[Frank Pont]

Steve

Is that like the stuff they put down on paths to ease the wear and tear ? If so, what is he using to bind it together, if anything ?

Niall

I think it is exactly the same stuff used on paths, and that's where Murray got the idea. There is a binder, but I guess that's supposed to be a trade secret. I don't know what it's made of.

I have been told it has two problems, one it is elastic so if you hit a ball against a bunker face with this material behind it with little sand coverage the ball will bounce back (that is what rubber does), second it does let scraps of rubber loose, at least that is what I have been told(rubber is less bad than stones but still not good for green mowers).

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