What are the fastest greens

[Lester George]

I have told every superintendent I have ever worked with that SMOOTH was much more important that FAST.  I have seen so many guys get caught up in the speed discussion that they harm the course, their reputation and their patrons by trying to win the speed contest.  

When certain members of certain clubs carry Stimpmeters in their golf bags to "compare" their greens to others in the community, it brings unnecessary burden on the maintenance operation to "measure up".

Let the supers do their jobs and provide the best (smooth, healthy, consistent) conditions their course can handle (taking green slopes, size and design characteristics into mind) and stop the madness of members helping by keeping track of what others are doing.

Lester

[Jim Franklin]

Well said Lester.

[Sean_A]

For you supers out there, at what speed would you prefer to keep your greens?

For you golfers out there, at what speed would you prefer your greens to roll?

I always thought that on thoughtfully designed greens, 9-10 should be spot on.

Ciao

[Shaun Feidt]

I think green speeds of 11 are ideal for everyday play through the summer at the courses I manage(factoring slope, pin locations, pace of play, turf health, and all of the other factors).  It is not to hard to get them going 12 to 13 in spring and fall with little effort and some kindness from mother nature, but probably isn't completely necessary.  I am finding out more this year that climate and weather play a huge factor in conditioning, sometimes much more than our maintenance practices.  We have had a very wet summer in our region, which in turn made us work our greens a little more this season to try and achieve our target.  But a lot of times, we were still coming up short of the target due to excessive moisture.  Not to metion when you are out there double cutting and rolling on wet greens, it takes a toll on the turf, and if not carefull you can start losing grass pretty quickly.

[Greg Tallman]

For you supers out there, at what speed would you prefer to keep your greens?

For you golfers out there, at what speed would you prefer your greens to roll?

I always thought that on thoughtfully designed greens, 9-10 should be spot on.

Ciao

We try to keep ours between 10 and 11, occasionally speeding them to 12 which is about as far we go. Typically if we err it is on the slow side as the greens will sometimes run in the 9 to 9.5 range which to be honest is too slow for the greens we have. For me 11 is perfect, keeps you attention but nothing silly.

[Rick Sides]

Lester said it best "Fast does not equal good"  Having worked on grounds crews I can tell you 10ish is more than fine.  Having said that, I have played Oakmont in a charity outing when the caddies were laughing because on this windy day the speeds were much faster than the US Open and it was not fun at all getting beat up by already devious greens.

[Ryan Kennedy]

I have told every superintendent I have ever worked with that SMOOTH was much more important that FAST.  I have seen so many guys get caught up in the speed discussion that they harm the course, their reputation and their patrons by trying to win the speed contest.  

When certain members of certain clubs carry Stimpmeters in their golf bags to "compare" their greens to others in the community, it brings unnecessary burden on the maintenance operation to "measure up".

Let the supers do their jobs and provide the best (smooth, healthy, consistent) conditions their course can handle (taking green slopes, size and design characteristics into mind) and stop the madness of members helping by keeping track of what others are doing.

Lester

I could not agree more... However, you must acknowledge that when you get greens that are smooth, they must also be a little firm... This combination alone makes them faster.

I call perfection, in order of importance, as Smooth, Firm & 12 stimp.   

[Patrick_Mucci]

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For you supers out there, at what speed would you prefer to keep your greens?

For you golfers out there, at what speed would you prefer your greens to roll?

I always thought that on thoughtfully designed greens, 9-10 should be spot on.

Sean,

So much depends upon the configuration of the greens.

How much slope ?
How much contour ?
What size ?
What weather environment ?

The extremely fast greens at MPCC were appropriate in the context of the above.

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, have you ever played Grandfather G&CC?

NO

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think it's safe to say that slower green speeds are a condition of the past.

I've generally opposed flattening greens to accomodate higher green speeds.
I think compromising contour and/or slope in the name of faster stimps is an architectural mistake.

The putting surfaces at MPCC aren't severe, either in contour or slope, although, there are a few with dual tiers with significant elevation changes, but, those tiers are more about one's approach than one's putting.

MPCC's greens enjoy a unique micro-climate, one where moisture in the air, is beneficial.
Some call if fog.
It comes and goes.
In addition, MPCC and the courses in that area aren't affected by weather anomalies.
They don't tend to get 90 degree days and as such, I think they can "dial in" the conditions the membership desires.

Putting on them was a culture shock to me, but, I adjusted and after playing them for a few days, putted rather well, although, those cups have to have the sharpest edges I've ever seen.

Even in a similar micro-climate, configuration of the greens can make an enormous difference.

Anyone who's played Baltusrol Upper and Lower can attest to that.

If both courses stimped at the same speed, the Upper would be far more difficult to putt, due to contour and slope.

So, speed is not a universal or general condition, but, one confined to the club and it's particular greens, climate, etc., etc..

MPCC was simply spectacular and FUN to play.