[Jud_T]

ok- point taken.  Hell, he's probably more impartial than I am.  Given the pictures of the property and the archy I'll give the DeVries course a 7 sight unseen, with an option for an 8 after grow in!  

[John Kavanaugh]

So this kid is working with DeVries and has Kingsley as a top 100 world and then dares to accuse Golf Magazine raters on being on the take over a lousy outing?  Have any of you taken a look who is on the Golf Magazine panel?  I don't believe for a second that any of them can be bought over nothing more than a free outing.  A consulting job maybe, an outing...no way.

[Michael Whitaker]

JakaB:  "We all know of plenty of great highly ranked courses that fly raters on private planes."

Can you name a few?  This is interesting, even mysterious stuff!

Yes, please tell us more... I'd love to be bought... just once!  

[John Kavanaugh]

Some things are better cocktail banter than Internet chat. I honestly thought it was common knowledge. To be clear I do not subscribe that the guests are bought. If I had access to a plane and was paying for fuel it wouldn't make much sense to either fly or play alone.

[Buck Wolter]

So this kid is working with DeVries and has Kingsley as a top 100 world and then dares to accuse Golf Magazine raters on being on the take over a lousy outing?  Have any of you taken a look who is on the Golf Magazine panel?  I don't believe for a second that any of them can be bought over nothing more than a free outing.  A consulting job maybe, an outing...no way.

I don't have any inside knowledge but couldn't it be that his fondness for Kingsley paved the way for him to get Mike involved where he is the project consultant rather than vice versa? That would be some long term payoff as Kingsley has always been in his Top 100 -- I bought a copy of Planet Golf with Kingsley's first hole on the cover at least 5 years ago.

[JC Jones]

So this kid is working with DeVries and has Kingsley as a top 100 world and then dares to accuse Golf Magazine raters on being on the take over a lousy outing?  Have any of you taken a look who is on the Golf Magazine panel?  I don't believe for a second that any of them can be bought over nothing more than a free outing.  A consulting job maybe, an outing...no way.

I don't have any inside knowledge but couldn't it be that his fondness for Kingsley paved the way for him to get Mike involved where he is the project consultant rather than vice versa? That would be some long term payoff as Kingsley has always been in his Top 100 -- I bought a copy of Planet Golf with Kingsley's first hole on the cover at least 5 years ago.

Oh Buck, don't go making sense.   

[Mark Chaplin]

Mike - I did play a public/resort course in the USA this year, it was an experience, especially as it was between rounds at Whisper Rock and Cypress Point.

If you really want to know in order CPC, the Tuscon resort, Whisper Rock (Upper and Lower), TCC, National, Essex County, Deal, Galloway, Pine Valley & Oakland Hills. Apart from CPC all were accessed directly through hosting at RCP over the years.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike - I did play a public/resort course in the USA this year, it was an experience, especially as it was between rounds at Whisper Rock and Cypress Point.

If you really want to know in order CPC, the Tuscon resort, Whisper Rock (Upper and Lower), TCC, National, Essex County, Deal, Galloway, Pine Valley & Oakland Hills. Apart from CPC all were accessed directly through hosting at RCP over the years.

Mark,

Congratulations! Welcome to the Double Standards Inner Club within Golf Club Atlas. You have great company as Tom Doak, Pat Mucci and John Kavanaugh are the Board Members!!

Please carry on with the changes to the Private Club system in America. Goodness knows you have it figured out perfectly !  

[John Kavanaugh]

I hereby nominate Oliver as the official ranking source of the DSIC.  We would insist on only the "Internet's most authoritative source for unbiased and accurate golf course information."  As taken from http://devriesdesigns.com/category/news/

Darius Oliver, author of the critically acclaimed Planet Golf and Planet Golf USA books, has started Planet Golf On-line, a website to provide the “Definitive Reference to the World’s Greatest Golf Courses” and the “Internet’s most authoritative source for unbiased and accurate golf course information.” In developing this site and its accompanying Global Golf Group, Oliver has identified only nine Quality Endorsed Designers, and Mike DeVries is among that select group.

note: Oliver has reached last name only status, a fine compliment.

[Ally Mcintosh]

John,

I like Darius Oliver's writing a lot. And generally agree with most of his assessments.... But like you, I had to raise an eyebrow when I read that "Oliver is one of the best-travelled commentators in golf and arguably the game’s most authoritative voice on quality design and architecture" from the Global Golf website...

And I really abhor the idea of one man quality endorsing architects... I've been loud enough in my angst at the R&A doing the same kind of thing...

Still planetgolf is a great resource and I hope it keeps on evolving...

[Buck Wolter]

Here is his list of 'Quality Endorsed' designers by planet golf -- he should probably recuse himself from judging any of their courses to maintain his credibility.

Ben Crenshaw
Two-time Masters champion Ben Crenshaw, and his design partner Bill Coore, form the leading active course design firm in the world right now. Blessed with some superb golf sites, and the ability to limit themselves to only one or two projects at a time, Coore and Crenshaw have an uncanny knack of be....
read more

Bill Coore
Bill Coore and his design partner Ben Crenshaw, two-time Masters Champion, form the leading active course design firm in the world right now. Blessed with some superb golf sites, and the ability to limit themselves to only one or two projects at a time, Coore and Crenshaw have an uncanny knack of be....
read more

Bob Harrison
Until his departure in 2009 from Greg Norman Golf Course Design, Bob Harrison had been the man behind Greg Norman’s Asian and Australian courses for the best part of 20 years. Harrison has an impressive portfolio of completed courses and a genuine appreciation of classic, strategic golf design....
read more

Gil Hanse
One of modern golf’s most talented course architects, Gil Hanse may have a relatively small portfolio but he has demonstrated a clear ability to be able to build fun, strategic and continually engaging golf courses. Rustic Canyon in California is precisely the sort of layout the game needs mo....
read more

Kyle Phillips
Kyle Phillips burst onto the international golfing stage with the 2000 opening of Kingbarns near St Andrews in Scotland, his career starting many years earlier in the offices of Robert Trent Jones Jr. While with RTJ II Phillips was responsible for some really nice work on the European mainland, part....
read more

Michael Clayton
A former European Tour player turned golf course architect, Mike Clayton has worked on a number of terrific courses across Australia and in 2010 entered into a partnership with US Open Champion, and fellow Victorian, Geoff Ogilvy. Clayton's start in design came during the late 1990s, when he assembl....
read more

Mike DeVries
A native of Michigan and passionate disciple of the great Dr Alister MacKenzie, Mike DeVries is one of those rare modern course architects who not only understands the principals of great design but is also able to personally shape the features that make golf courses so appealing. His ability to wor....
read more

Rod Whitman
Rod Whitman is a gifted Canadian golf course shaper, designer and all-round builder. Much of his career has been working with Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw shaping their golf courses, but he has also created a couple of wonderful layouts of his own – including Blackhawk and Wolf Creek in his hom....
read more

Tom Doak
A self proclaimed architectural Renaissance man, Tom Doak entered the design business largely on the back of his ‘no holds barred’ commentary on competing architects and a profound confidence that, given the opportunity, he could return golf to the glory days of the Golden Age. Whether d....
read more

[Michael Whitaker]

Darius is obviously trying to position himself as a major authority in golf architecture. Granted, all his credentials are self-appointed, but what's not to love about a guy promoting himself to the hilt... even if he does go a bit over the top! The next thing you know he will have Patrick Mucci defending him on this site!    Darius wants to play matchmaker and is marketing himself as the "go to" guy for "unbiased" advice on how a course should pick an architect. If he is successful a time or two (and maybe he already has?) it won't be long before the archies will be endorsing him!

[Josh Tarble]

I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing with Planet Golf...in fact I think it's a great resource because it's coming from one man's opinion.  I actually see it as very similar to Tom Doak's Confidential Guide.  

However, The CG clearly states that it is Doak's opinion while PG says it's unbiased and THE authoritative source nowhere disclosing the fact that it is only Oliver's opinion.   That alone makes it a biased guide, albeit an educated bias - as well, listing preferred architects is still not a bad thing, it's far from unbiased and far from authoritative.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kidd seems to be a glowing omission until you read Oliver's review of his work.  I wish I had a history of their relationship.  Oliver ranks Nanea lower than any other reputable rater I have read.  Interesting at the very least.

[Mark Woodger]

Darius is obviously trying to position himself as a major authority in golf architecture. Granted, all his credentials are self-appointed, but what's not to love about a guy promoting himself to the hilt... even if he does go a bit over the top!

It worked for Trump!!  

[Michael Whitaker]

Darius is obviously trying to position himself as a major authority in golf architecture. Granted, all his credentials are self-appointed, but what's not to love about a guy promoting himself to the hilt... even if he does go a bit over the top!

It worked for Trump!!  

Exactly... thus the Mucci reference. 

[Richard Chamberlain]

Its an entertaining read on some of his opinions on some of the architects work. Take the time to read about Wayne Grady and a couple of others on there.

[Gary Slatter]

Is he with the BLOWFISH?

[Scott Warren]

Darius writes as well on golf architecture as anyone alive today.

He's insightful and articulate, and "calls a spade a f***ing shovel" as us Australians tend to do.

For my money, Planet Golf & Planet Golf USA in tandem are a better resource than the World Atlas of Golf.

[David Kelly]

I had to raise an eyebrow when I read that "Oliver is one of the best-travelled commentators in golf and arguably the game’s most authoritative voice on quality design and architecture" from the Global Golf website...

Hence the word arguably.

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