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David_Tepper

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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 09:48:52 AM »
My mom wouldn't have wanted a 7,400 yard course named after her.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 11:00:45 AM »
"...Fairways will be generous in width but tighter where the longer player will be challenged..."

Essentially, mom had an hourglass figure?
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 11:17:25 AM »
I played Trump Scotland about a three weeks ago.  while it's still maturing, and the turf wasn't quite playing like the other links courses, there's no denying that this is a excellent golf course and well worth crossing nine time zones to play.  Ran's review hits on the highlights, so i won't say much more other than it's a smart design, a spectacular setting, and loads of fun golf.

when we were there we could see the parts of the Macleod course staked out in the flattish, land just to the west (or north) of the existing course.  It'll be very interesting to see what Hawtree does here, but based on the existing work, i'd love to see and play it if i had the opportunity.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 03:38:23 PM »
"...Fairways will be generous in width but tighter where the longer player will be challenged..."

Essentially, mom had an hourglass figure?


Every hole will be a Bottle Hole!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 04:03:06 PM »
Wayne,.

Thanks for your observations based upon your play of the course.

You do know of course, that others, who have never set foot on the golf course, let alone played it, will offer their counter arguments and criticize you opinion. ;D

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 04:30:26 PM »
Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (HBO) did a segment on the course. It aired on Aug. 20 and focused on Trump's freakout over the windmills. They pointed out the irony in Trump ignoring environmental/aesthetic concerns when he built the course and now using environmental/aesthetic concerns to condemn the windmills.

They also interviewed the dude who owns the piece of property next to the course. That guy is hilarious and has my respect for standing on principle and surprising Trump by his unwillingness to be bought off. People like Trump think everyone has a price, and this guy proves that isn't always true.

Golf course looked cool, though.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 05:17:29 PM »
Wayne,.

Thanks for your observations based upon your play of the course.

You do know of course, that others, who have never set foot on the golf course, let alone played it, will offer their counter arguments and criticize you opinion. ;D

Of course.  In fact, I was a.) prepared to bash it before stepping foot on it.  b.) expecting to hear scathing remarks from all, if not most, of the locals that i encountered leading up to may play.  It was the complete opposite on both accounts.  

And I am fully prepared to defend what i saw and experienced.  The one "negative" if there were any, would be the multiple sets of tee-boxes that each hole offered... i'm typically not a huge fan of this (just seems like 3 maybe 4 would be plenty) and considering the other more traditional courses which we played that week, this practice at Trump certainly had an "un-Scotland" like feel.  Let's it put this way... i'd hate to be the guy (or guys) who have to mow and maintain all those paths leading into and out of those tee boxes... it was quite like a maze in some spots.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 05:47:30 PM »
Of course.  In fact, I was a.) prepared to bash it before stepping foot on it.  b.) expecting to hear scathing remarks from all, if not most, of the locals that i encountered leading up to may play.  It was the complete opposite on both accounts.  

I played a Mixed Greensomes with a couple from Aberdeen last week and asked the guy about the reaction among the locals.  I was, like you, surprised to hear that no one really cared much about it one way or another. Then a few days later, we played Fraserburgh and talked to some guys in the clubhouse about it after they pointed out some sort of drawing to win a foursome at Trump, and asked if we'd played.  

Same reaction.

When I said that there simply aren't any golf courses worth the Trump tariff to me, they agreed.  IMHO, the lack of concern from them is that they don't expect to EVER play there.  Not when a fourball costs more than a year's subscription at their course.

I have no doubt that it's a good golf course, and I won't bash it.  But I will also never play it.  As another GCAer said to me a few days ago, you've got to be aware of the effect on "per diem."

I can play Golspie four times, or Brora three times for what Trump Aberdeen costs.  I just can't justify using my resources that way. For the same reasons I haven't played--and won't play--Muirfield, Castle Stewart, Kingsbarns, Troon, et. al.

I am, however, happy for anyone whose situation lets them play regardless of the cost.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jeremy Rudock

Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 10:14:27 PM »
Wayne,.

Thanks for your observations based upon your play of the course.

You do know of course, that others, who have never set foot on the golf course, let alone played it, will offer their counter arguments and criticize you opinion. ;D

That's nothing.  There are people who run rather high profile blogs who will ban your IP address for wondering if they will give this course a fair shake by withholding judgement until it's completed and been played, rather than condemning it before the first shovel of dirt has been moved like they did with the first Trump course in Scotland.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 02:29:35 AM »
You do know of course, that others, who have never set foot on the golf course, let alone played it, will offer their counter arguments and criticize you opinion. ;D

You being the biggest culprit  ::)

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 04:18:53 AM »
Any news on the wind farm development just off the coast?
All the best.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 04:21:54 AM »
And therein lies the heart of a point disputed by Pat some time ago and the very essence of the future for the 'complex.'

It's a tourist attraction, complete with bag pipes. It holds no appeal for knowledgeable local golfers, the vast majority of whom can play better courses for less.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 04:23:13 AM »
"...Fairways will be generous in width but tighter where the longer player will be challenged..."

Essentially, mom had an hourglass figure?


Every hole will be a Bottle Hole!

Bill,

I doubt it. This is probably just the usual low standard PR crap that seems to dog this project.

Thomas,

The test wind farm has got approval as far as I recollect and so will be going ahead.

Jon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 06:01:27 AM »

You do know of course, that others, who have never set foot on the golf course, let alone played it, will offer their counter arguments and criticize you opinion. ;D

You being the biggest culprit  ::)

Would you cite for me where I've commented on the merits or demerits of the golf course.

Thanks

« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:02:59 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 07:03:38 AM »
And therein lies the heart of a point disputed by Pat some time ago and the very essence of the future for the 'complex.'

It's a tourist attraction, complete with bag pipes. It holds no appeal for knowledgeable local golfers, the vast majority of whom can play better courses for less.

Paul & other hater's et.al.,

Let me ask all of you a question. Given your label of "tourist attraction," shouldn't we view Pebble Beach, Whistling Straits, PGA West, TPC Sawgrass, Old Head and many other resort courses similarly?? Locals rarely, if ever, cough up the coin to play those place, benefiting instead from nearby more reasonable choices. Obviously, it's patently absurd to condemn any single course to such a label. Clearly, your flawed logic is poorly disguised as a front for your hatred and disdain for anything Trump Scotland finds a glaring spotlight.

The fact is that the course is most definitely good enough to earn accolades from many discerning critics. Most seem to really like it, some to varying degrees, but when people like Ran, Brad Klein, Joe Passov and Geoff Shackleford endorse it's architecture, that speaks with enough respectable volume. Like most other new courses, it has it's fair share of flaws and blemishes (some to be wishfully corrected in the near future), but nevertheless adds yet another interesting venue to the game.

Aberdeenshire was not always viewed as a destination for foreign golfers, regardless of it's older gems. Most went elsewhere, taking their tourist revenues with them. Fortunately, the North Sea Petro boom allowed the area's economy to thrive, but now the entire regions golf's prospects have one more reason to prosper. For example, I know one group of 12 Americans who leave this Sunday and play their way up from the Lothians thru to Inverness and will play at least three courses, if not four, in the Aberdeenshire area. In the past they all, to a man, wouldn't have ventured as far north.

Why is it that you all must spew your hatred over and over for this place? You don't like it. We get that.  You are entitled to your opinion, however it's golf, it's an asset and a choice, and hating it can neither positively influence, nor impact it's existence and direction. It strikes me as sad to spend so much time and energy denigrating what is done. Why don't we all just continue to watch the evolution of the second course instead of prematurely revile it. Martin Hawtree may be lots of things, but an incompetent hack isn't one of them. I, for one, will remain excited to think of what else might compliment that very impressive site.

Cheers!

The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 07:38:30 AM »
Steve,

though you wrap your opinion up in over the top language I do agree with much of what you say. However, many of those see certain flaws and find the conduct used in the creation of the first golf course to be unappetising have more than just one gripe about the project.

Jon

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 07:54:48 AM »
Forget about the flaws, Jon--whatever they may have been, they are now history, and post facto griping is not a seemly behaviour.

I dropped by the place last week on the way to a competition at Cruden Bay, and feel sorry for anybody who might consider Cruden Bay to be a better overall golfing experience than Trump.  The former is history, struggling to maintain its place.  The latter is the future, struggling to be loved.  IMHO, of course.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2013, 08:00:43 AM »
Rich,

That's an interesting comment.

Why do you feel that Cruden Bay is struggling ?

In what sense ?  Local membership ?  Tourist play ?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2013, 09:05:09 AM »
Well Rich, feel sorry for me.  I think Cruden Bay is a much more adventurous design and the better for it.  Whether or not it is a better overall experience, I can't say.  Trump is certainly classier, but with a green fee double Cruden Bay's not cheap fee, Trump should be classier, better maintained and with better service.  With very expensive green fees comes very high expectations.  For me, to date, Trump falls well short of my expectations.  There isn't a decent clubhouse and the course is in iffy condition.  When all is sorted, will the fee be £300? Plus, Cruden Bay has better views not only from the course but also the house.  If both places are free - I'll take CB 6-4.  If green fees are involved, its a 10-0 blanking of Trump.  That isn't a slate on Trump, its a great course, but in very tough company with Royal Aberdeen also lurking nearby and it is great as well.  No doubt rankings will see Trump as the diamond amongst pearls, but so what - all the courses will thrive due to Trump.  

BTW - I like the name of the new course.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2013, 09:09:53 AM »
Steve,

though you wrap your opinion up in over the top language I do agree with much of what you say. However, many of those see certain flaws and find the conduct used in the creation of the first golf course to be unappetising have more than just one gripe about the project.

Jon

Jon,

  You may rue the words, but it's deserved for "not seemly behaviour" you, Paul, Brian, et.al. earn for the incessant griping you all post so frequently. Flaws exist everywhere in nature and "perfect," even by the hand of man, remains elusive. Donald's conduct, however unappealing, was approved by the regional constituency and is no longer subject to revision. The time to be positive and make creative suggestions to help this regional asset shine is upon us.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2013, 09:35:50 AM »
Steve,

I come to exact opposite conclusion and would suggest that the last thing that should be done is forget all that has gone wrong in this project. It should be remembered so as not to allow such a farce to occur again. The project was rejected by the  regional constituency which was overruled by national powers who now regret doing it. I agree however that hopefully the whole thing will be a success and that course number two is even better. Funny that Rich G seems to think it will hurt other courses in the area though.

Jon

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2013, 12:06:17 PM »
Rich,

That's an interesting comment.

Why do you feel that Cruden Bay is struggling ?

In what sense ?  Local membership ?  Tourist play ?

Pat

As far as I know the local membership at Cruden Bay is prosperous and stable and the tourist play remains robust.

That being posited, the more I play the course the more it struggles in my mind vis a vis its quality.  It has a few great holes (3, 4, 7), several good ones (1, 5, 6, 11, 13 and 18) and far too many mediocre and even poor ones (all those not mentioned previously).  It's a fun course to play and it has great views from the clubhouse, but as I've said many, many times on this forum, if they just got rid of holes 8-15 and replaced them with the land appropriated from the St. Olaf's course, they could have a world class golf course.  What they have now is a mishmash that trades on its reputation, and not its quality.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2013, 12:14:25 PM »
Steve,

 Funny that Rich G seems to think it will hurt other courses in the area though.

Jon

Where did I say that, Jon?  I'm baffled!

I have always said that Trump's involvement and investments would be highly positive for the other courses in the area, and still beleive strongly that this is so.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Macleod at Trump Aberdeen
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2013, 01:22:03 PM »
it's deserved for "not seemly behaviour" you, Paul, Brian, et.al. earn for the incessant griping you all post so frequently.

Steve
Frequent Incessant griping ?

Really ?

All I have ever wanted to do, is discuss the golf course on here.

But each and every time it has been tried, up pops Mr Mucci to threadfuck.

What was the purpose of this thread that David started ?

To discuss the building of the second course ?

And once again with nothing sensible to add, up pops Mucci to throw accusations about again.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 01:23:36 PM by Brian_Ewen »