Oak Hill and the PGA - Out of Date, or a Breath of Fresh Air?

[Steve Lapper]

While exquisitely maintained and loaded with history, Oak Hill East is a mish-mash of architectural cognitive dissonance and a shallow imprinting of misplaced design. What was once a Donald Ross masterpiece has been butchered into a dungeon of difficulty. My only question is how didn't it rank #1 at Golf Digest??

[john_stiles]

Second, regarding the PGA Championship in general.  This tournament is going to be a blast for me, as well as the friends I grew up playing golf with.  There is nothing like watching the best players in the world tackle a course you have played a thousand times.  But I am also nervous about how the course, and the tournament in general, will be perceived in comparison with the other majors this year.  I mean, we had three absolutely dynamite major championships at what are likely 3 of the top 10 to 15 courses in the world.  Can Oak Hill match up?  More profoundly, can the PGA match up, ever?  Or is the PGA Championship also going to be the downer major?  What can the PGA Championship do to bring itself into the limelight?  Because we all know that "Glory's Last Shot" thing isn't working...

As to the second half,  I have thought about this while driving on the interstate and am still alive.

The PGA,  except maybe at Whistling Straits or the Ocean Course,  has never much moved the needle for me.  I am not sure why.  It is always at a great course according to almost everyone.

Is it because the PGA is always after The Open ?

Is it because I am  up to arse with golf course platitudes ?  

Is it because the daylight is getting noticeably shorter ?

Am I burned out on majors after 3 ?

Have I finally watched too much of the Golf Channel ?

I think it is all of the above.

I have almost  zero interest and will watch almost none of the PGA irregardless of the venue.

[Tony_Chapman]

Can someone clue me in on the unused 5th hole? And if the sixth is a "new" hole? Explain the process there to me. Thanks!

[Ronald Montesano]

No unused holes. Fifth and sixth have been the same since the late 1970s. 15 has a reshaped green and a dredged/clean pond. It was disgusting back in 2003. I always remember how icky it was.

[JNC Lyon]

John -

How much of OH's resistance to tree removal do you attribute to the fact that in the 1930's OH was a leader in the golf course 'beautification' movement? (Read: plant more trees.) There was an OH member at the time (I forget his name) who wrote an influential pamphlet on the subject. Many courses followed the OH example after WWII. We are still recovering from the after-effects.

As I recall OH's archives include a detailed survey of the tree species planted. The club saw itself as serving as a kind of arboretum for local tree types.

(There are a couple of good essays to be written about OH's role in the treeing of American golf courses. Hint, hint.)

Given OH's history with the issue, I wonder if the club doesn't see its massive hardwoods as a mark of distinction.  

Bob  

  

I think the club's history, and the influence of John R. Williams, play a definite role in members' resistance to tree removal. Oak Hill's history has a lot to do with the trees on the property, and many of the club's defining places and events have a direct reference to trees.  The annual 2-man scratch best ball, which attracts excellent amateur players from around the green (Danny Green has won it multiple times), is called "The John R. Williams."  The club's "Hall of Fame" is the "HILL of Fame,"  where each inductee gets a plaque on a tree.  So yes, the club's history has something to do it.

However, this is not the whole story.  I think much of the story is similar to those heard at other clubs.  The powers that be at Oak Hill, many of whom are scratch golfers, are concerned that massive tree removal or widening of playing corridors would make the course dramatically easier.  The focus is on "how can we penalize players," not, "how can we make things more interesting."  I find this frustrating for a couple of reasons.  First, I simply disagree with this approach to golf architecture.  Second, I think the East Course has some much to offer in terms of land, routing, and green complexes, that I believe the course would still stand up well against the world's best if it were chainsawed from end to end.  Watch some of the tournament this week.  Watch how squeamish the players get on short shots around the greens.  Watch the befuddlement with the 5-10 footers, which seem to be flat on every other tour venue.  Why was Merion such a great test this year?  I'll give you a hint: it wasn't because of the trees.

As an aside, I've only read a few passages from John R. Williams' pamphlets on tree planting.  From what I remember, his justification for planting trees made sense in the context of 1930s maintenance practices, but it has little relevance today.

[JNC Lyon]

Can someone clue me in on the unused 5th hole? And if the sixth is a "new" hole? Explain the process there to me. Thanks!

Tony,

The process is a little confusing, so here is a basic chronology of the 5th and 6th holes.

-Ross builds a par four 5th hole, playing from next to the current 4th green to a green directly between today's 5th and 6th greens.  The hole is originally around 360 yards, but a new tee for the 1956 Open makes it a beast at 440 yards.

-Ross builds a short par three 6th hole, running perpendicular to the current 5th hole.  Ron, this is the hole I showed you yesterday.  The tee is next to the 12th fairway, while the green was between the current 7th and 9th tees (there is a still a flat spot).

-After the 1956 US Open, the club and USGA decide this area of the course is too congested.  So, they scrap the original par 3 6th, and the build a new par three between the 4th and 5th.  This is the "unused" hole you are referring to.  It played as the par three 5th for the 1968 US Open, and the original par 4 5th becomes the 6th hole.

-After the 1968 Open, the membership and USGA are fired up about the 275 winning score from then-unknown Lee Trevino.  So, they bring in George Fazio to redesign the 5th and 6th holes.  The now unused par three 5th is scraped, as the par four 6th (which Trevino called one of the best par fours he has ever played).  They replace it with a new par four 5th and a new par three 6th.  These holes are similar to what are there now.  Fazio group came back about 4 years ago to re-do the 5th and 6th greens, which gives some idea of the quality of those greens originally.

-Fazio also moved greens on 15 (which used to be farther up the hillside on the left) and 18 (which used to be closer to the clubhouse) in the 1970s.

[Sean_A]

With rare exceptions, the PGA has never thrilled me.  Its a footnote on the golf season.  I just can't be bothered to watch yet another 72 hole stroke event; two a year (Masters and the Open) is enough.

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

I am corrected! I have the proof that a hole exists whose prior manifestation was unknown to me. Here's a map. The unused hole is coffined in the upper-right corner of the image:

[Tony_Chapman]

JNC and Ronald -- Thanks!! I was having a look at google maps and couldn't figure out what that hole was. Do they still use the old 5th for club play? It appears that maintain it at least.

[Bill Brightly]

Jon,

The 15th looks like a great hole.

Bill



PS: Tim says hello

[JNC Lyon]

JNC and Ronald -- Thanks!! I was having a look at google maps and couldn't figure out what that hole was. Do they still use the old 5th for club play? It appears that maintain it at least.

Mostly, they will use it as a practice hole.  It's a great place to spend a few hours working on the wedge game.  Occasionally, when another hole is out of commission, they will rotate it in for regular play.  I like it better than half of the par threes on the East Course.

[JNC Lyon]

Jon,

The 15th looks like a great hole.

Bill



PS: Tim says hello

Glad to hear you enjoyed my joke about the "pick the hole location" contest...

[BHoover]

I think Oak Hill looks pretty spectacular on television. It seemed to be playing fairly firm and fast, at least until the rain hit late in the day.  And the trees don't seem to encroach on the holes as much as I would have expected.

True, it doesn't look much like a Ross anymore. But it seems to be a pretty good course for a major championship. It reminds me a lot of Scioto. Both Ross courses that don't look like Ross anymore. But they both provide a good tournament test for good players. Does anyone else think it looks a lot like Scioto?

[Dan Herrmann]

I saw something sad today.  A newly planted coniferous tree near a greenside cart path.  In 15 years, that "Christmas Tree" sized plant will grow into a big tree who's roots will break the cart path, who's shadow will cast upon the green.  Worst of all, it serves no architectural purpose other than to make the course more "beautiful".

[Ronald Montesano]

1. I voted to cut the hole in the bunker on #15 on Sunday. It was a write-in candidate.

2. John Lyon planted that Christmas tree. Got it from Schroeder or Charlie Brown or someone.

3. Hoover is correct (not about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor) in that it is fast and firm in the fairways and the trees do not encroach all the time. You know where they do if you've had the JNC tour, however.

[John Kavanaugh]

I think Oak Hill looks pretty spectacular on television. It seemed to be playing fairly firm and fast, at least until the rain hit late in the day.  And the trees don't seem to encroach on the holes as much as I would have expected.

True, it doesn't look much like a Ross anymore. But it seems to be a pretty good course for a major championship. It reminds me a lot of Scioto. Both Ross courses that don't look like Ross anymore. But they both provide a good tournament test for good players. Does anyone else think it looks a lot like Scioto?

The trees don't encroach?!  Did you see Tiger's approach on his 18th hole of the day the 9th?  This course is an embarrassment to any student of the game that believes in the beauty of a well stratigized play. The only  reason anyone would enjoy being a member here is for the status, not the statusgery.  Worst course to host a major in this decade.  Seriously, courses like this have seen their day like big breasts and duck lips. Bye, bye.

[Ronald Montesano]

Line one respectfully deleted...


this decade is four years old...Oak Hill is probably not concerned with that "worst course" assessment.

Oak Hill demands that players work the ball laterally. Not wicked fades and draws, but mild ones. That's not such a bad thing.

I can't go on...the rest of it can't even be countered with the English language...nighty-night, sleep tight.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ron,

Now that you have got insulting me off your chest how about giving an example of even one interesting shot that I could look forward to observing tomorrow. Since a decade is too short a timespan for you please name a more boring course to host a major in the last millennium. If not that, name one in this Galaxy.  I can't think of one with the possible exception of Hazeltine but I give it a pass for being both conceived and born boring. Oak Hill had to evolve into this state of awfulness.

[Jud_T]

John,

I'm looking forward to napping through Adam Scott's anchored tap-in on 18 to win this snooze fest.  If the PGA was looking to cement their status as the redheaded stepchild of the Major family, this might be the ticket.

[BHoover]

John, if Oak Hill really is so terrible in your opinion, then why not just turn off the television and go do something else? By the way, I find your opinion to be utterly ridiculous. But out of curiosity, I'd like to know what course you'd rather see host a major championship than an Oak Hill? If this course really is so boring, uninteresting and devoid of strategy, please tell me what course SHOULD be hosting this tournament. I'm really curious to know.

I enjoyed watching the first round, but obviously I must not have your keen eye for golf courses, so please educate me.

[John Kavanaugh]

Brian,

I said it was the worst course, I didn't say it was unwatchable. Come to think of it I won't be watching this weekend. As far as better courses in the NY area it is easy for me to state the obvious.

I will name a course for every interesting architectural feature that you can point out. I will even go first.

Bethpage.

[BHoover]

Interestingly, I thought both Opens at Bethpage were boring. But I still disagree that Oak Hill is the worst course to host a major. I think it's more interesting than Congressional, Atlanta Athletic Club and Lytham. And truth be told, I get tired of seeing ANGC every year.

If we're making ridiculous statements, then let's go for it.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm going to be stuck in an uncomfortable chair watching every last second of this coverage today. Is it to much to ask for one interesting feature to look out for besides a ditch that prevents a long par 5 from being reached. One green, one par 3, anything?!?

[Tim Martin]

I'm going to be stuck in an uncomfortable chair watching every last second of this coverage today. Is it to much to ask for one interesting feature to look out for besides a ditch that prevents a long par 5 from being reached. One green, one par 3, anything?!?

Kav- I was there for 4 days of the 1989 US Open and a couple days for the 2003 PGA and I didn't have a lick of interest in going up this year. I would call it "parkland gone wrong".

[Ronald Montesano]

To begin, the approach shots into 12 and 14. If they hit driver, they will be in the green side bunkers; if they lay up, they will have a wedge in. They are more likely to take a run at 14 than 12.

Tee shot on 3. For half the field, it's the first par three they'll play in the round and with softened greens, they'll have a chance to turn a bruiser into a birdie opportunity

Second shot on 4. Only one guy got to the green yesterday in to and he made eagle. We might see a few more go shots versus safe shots today.

Not sure where the hole will be on 6, nor if they've softened the green since Ace-Fest 1989. Hopefully the bowl still exists and the flag is there today.

The run of drivers on holes 7 through 9. For those who complain that Tiger can't hit the ocean from the ship with his war club, here is a terrific three-hole run to find out just who can.

TIME OUT: Green side sand shots all around the course. According to caddies and players, the sand is coarser and affords less spin. Of course, that will be moot today, but if the greens drain and the sun returns through the weekend, recovery shots with less spin will be interesting to watch.

Tee shot on 13. Rumors come and go, and the one on this hole is that the tee will be played up to give golfers a shot at reaching the green in two, either on Saturday or Friday.

The juxtaposition of short iron/wedge into 15 and 16 for birdie opps, followed by long marches on 17 and 18 where birdies would feel like eagles.

For these reasons, I would watch the tournament. Of course, I could never watch a golf tournament from a chair and do nothing else. That's my attention span roaring. Bring a magazine, newspaper, tablet, something to distract yourself from the commercials and announcer chatter.