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Niall C

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Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« on: August 04, 2013, 07:31:31 AM »
A few weeks back there was a discussion on the 10th on the New Course, and as a consequence of that discussion, Melvyn sent me a couple of articles relating to redesign work undertaken by Colt during the winter of 1919/1920. The main article is the Evening Telegraph of Thursday 29th January 1920 which gives a description of the changes together with a drawing of the 7th hole. Being a techno-numpty I'm unable to post the drawing or article which in any case probably wouldn't lend itself to being posted however I've summarised the changes as below;

2nd – hole to be widened

3rd – hole to be widened

4th – tee transferred to the left, fairway bunker 200 yards to the right to be filled in and new bunker to left in more visible position, further new bunker short right of green, left hand corner of bank guarding green three new shallow pot bunkers formed.

5th – ridge guarding green lowered in middle by 18 inches to make green more visible and to allow a ball landing short to run onto green. Ridge originally had small pot bunkers at either end of ridge – replaced by two larger bunkers. Depression made in green to back right.

6th – hole widened and large bunker made in middle of fairway on rising ground about 160/170 yards from tee. Whins to the left removed. New bunker made 160 yards further on right hand side at bottom of hill overlooking hollow. Green moved to the right, adjoining the old tee ground for the 4th.

7th – bunkers 70 yards in front of tee filled in. Bunkers to left and right of green enlarged such that distance between them is 20 feet.

8th - new bunker 160 yards on from tee to right in face of hill. “Half way to hole” two new bunkers in middle of fairway. Gap in bank in front of green lowered to give better view of green with bunkers on either side.

9th – hole shortened with new green. Pot bunker in hollow in front of old green filled in.

10th – row of bunkers running across course (fairway) in echelon from left to right along “range of hills” that cross fairway. Bunkers designed to trap a bad second.

11th – hole lengthened by 100 yards with formation of new green to right and further back “in the dunes”. Bunkers round existing/old
11th green to come into play in 12th.

12th – hole lengthened with new tee in dunes behind old 11th green. Various bunkers filled in and new ones formed (article is not specific).

13th - “an excellent attempt to embody the features of the famous short 11th on the old course is seen” – green pushed back to bank beyond existing green with deep bunkers flanking either side.

15th – green moved beyond and to the right to form double green with 3rd. Previous green had cross bunkers in front.

17th – made into a drive and pitch hole with green pushed back beyond old green and “higher level with natural banks”.

18th – new green described as large and spacious and beyond old green. Large area of whins cleared away to make way for green. Teeing ground brought forward to edge of the hills but well to the right so that the old hole is practically the same length as the old one. Many of existing bunkers filled in and new ones created, no details given.

The overall cost of the work was £1,000 with work carried out by Mr Hart of Sutton & Co who was in charge of work in connection in making Eden course.

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 07:35:47 AM »
Unfortunately the article doesn't give a list of hole lengths however its interesting to compare the hole lengths between 1896 whn it opened to 2013;

Hole Lengths (yds)

Hole      1895      2013

1      310      336
2      400      367
3      510      511
4      320      369
5      190      180
6      440      445
7      350      356
8      500      481
9      280      225

Out      3,300   3,270

10      440      464
11      330      368
12      440      518
13      170      157
14      400      386
15      280      394
16      490      431
17      210      229
18      380      408

In      3,140   3,355

Interesting to see that the New course is actually shorter now than when first built (or at least it was until Blake noticed my error !). Of course this may be to do with changes in the way courses are measured however I can't imagine it would make that much of a difference.

Niall
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 01:57:52 PM by Niall Carlton »

Paul_Turner

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 07:42:27 AM »
Very interesting Niall and Melvyn, thanks for pinning these changes down.  One of the first post war jobs for Colt.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 07:54:22 AM »
Paul

The spade work was all Melvyn's, I just did the secretarial bit.

What I think interesting is that while he made a lot of changes he didn't really stray from the existing routing of the course. I've got to think he must have been tempted by the adjacent land with the Jubille. I've got to think that it must have been a consideration and perhaps lead to the composite type layout later proposed by Campbell/Hutchison/Auchterlonie.

Niall

Blake Conant

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 09:04:40 AM »
Just a slight correction, in 1896 the course came in at 3140 yards

Paul_Turner

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 09:11:33 AM »
Niall

I can't quite recall where, but Colt suggests using the Himalayas putting green to lengthen 1 and 18 and shorten the walk from town.

Probably his worst idea ever.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 09:13:09 AM »
Thanks Melvyn (and Niall).... Great to hear about those New course changes

Off-topic I know but if anyone (Paul?) can find me out what Colt recommended at Portmarnock on his visit in 1919, I'd be eternally grateful... That one is the holy grail for me because I suspect the great changes that occurred in the 1920's under the guidance of Guppy Cairnes might have come from Colt's suggestions in that report...

Tom_Doak

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 12:48:51 PM »
Thanks Melvyn (and Niall).... Great to hear about those New course changes

Off-topic I know but if anyone (Paul?) can find me out what Colt recommended at Portmarnock on his visit in 1919, I'd be eternally grateful... That one is the holy grail for me because I suspect the great changes that occurred in the 1920's under the guidance of Guppy Cairnes might have come from Colt's suggestions in that report...

Guppy Cairnes?  First time I've ever heard that name -- and it's not one you'd forget easily!

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 01:56:20 PM »
Just a slight correction, in 1896 the course came in at 3140 yards

Thanks Blake, correction made.

Niall

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2013, 02:02:42 PM »
Niall

I can't quite recall where, but Colt suggests using the Himalayas putting green to lengthen 1 and 18 and shorten the walk from town.

Probably his worst idea ever.

Paul

That would have made anything Martin Hawtree's ever done appear inconsequential. Although having the 18th green in the same ground with the same contours as the Himalayas would have been a hoot.

As an aside, does anyone know whether the 18th green and 1st tee were redesigned when they built the New/Jubilee clubhouse ?

Niall  

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2013, 02:53:08 PM »
Thanks Niall - and Melvyn.

It is worth recalling that MacKenzie made at least one of the inspections for Colt during this remodelling (and possibly more) as we have records of him writing that he was off to Scotland for a period and one of the projects was the New course at St Andrews.

And like Tom, I have never heard of Guppy Cairnes either!

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2013, 05:06:11 PM »
Hugh "Guppy" Cairnes was the long-standing rule-with-an-iron-rod head honcho at Portmarnock. He was not an architect per-se but history has him designing (or at least driving) the most significant changes to the links in the early 1920's... These included a completely new hole (the famous short fifteenth replacing a par-3 that played between the current 17th green and the left tee on 18) and quite a few re-sited greens (including the great 14th)... But all these changes happened within 3 or 4 years of a visit and report by Colt in 1919, presumed lost in clubhouse fire and one I've never seen any contents from...

Not sure if Guppy Cairnes was ever involved with other golf-course design... Portmarnock's original designer (and president) W.Pickeman was however apparently responsible for about 20 or so other designs - Guess I'll need to look in to more info on that angle...

Hijacking thread a bit but the 1919 Colt date is loosely connected I guess...

Bill_McBride

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 08:59:02 PM »
Niall

I can't quite recall where, but Colt suggests using the Himalayas putting green to lengthen 1 and 18 and shorten the walk from town.

Probably his worst idea ever.

But now the Open tee for #2 is in a corner of the Himalyas. 

Bill_McBride

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 09:02:24 PM »
It's interesting to hear that Colt may have recommended the Great Depression at the fifth hole, one of my favorite par 3s at St Andrews.  I always supposed that crevasse was natural, not sure why anyone would think that great par 3 needed to be defended beyond those daunting front bunkers!

Frank Pont

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 08:02:47 AM »
Wow, I wasn't aware that Colt had left such a large imprint on the new course; 6 new greens, lots of rebunkering and new tees means there is a lot of Colt! I played the course many times when I studied in Edinburgh, need to go back to see thecourse again with this new information.

Great find by Melvyn, do we have old pics of the (Colt) bunkering before theubiquitous revetted pits went in after WWII? This might be a good guinea pig for the Links Trust to restore Colts sand faced bunkers......

BCrosby

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2013, 08:54:58 AM »
"This might be a good guinea pig for the Links Trust to restore Colts sand faced bunkers......"

Sounds good. I vote for anything that will distract Dawson from making more of his "improvements" to TOC.

Bob

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2013, 02:11:01 PM »
I'll vote for anything that gets Frank and Peter Dawson in the same room, as long as I can listen in to the discussion  ;D

Ally,

Feel free to hijack the thread. It's always interesting to find out where these guys have been and when, especially thinking about what courses they might have been doing at the same time and what influences they might have had on each other. Please let us know if you find anything.

Neil

Remind me, where did we find that nugget of information about MacK and the New course.

Niall

Frank Pont

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2013, 03:25:35 PM »
Niall, I'm sure it would be a very frank but civilised conversation, I had many, many of those in my I Banking days  :)

But seriously, I don't see why the R&A, and then specifically Dawson, would be involved. It is a non British Open course which is being administred by the Links Trust

Niall C

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2013, 01:59:18 PM »
Frank

If I recall the set up correctly the course management committee has 3 members from the R&A on it but whether one of them is Dawson I don't know. The same committee deals with all the links courses (I think).

That aside it might be an interesting project for the Links Trust to consider as clearly the course has lost quite a few of the Colt touches such as bunkering at the tenth for instance. As I said in another thread, I'm a big fan of the course but somehow it does feel as though it doesn't quite get the same love and attention as its near neighbour.

Niall

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Colt's work on the New Course, St Andrews
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2013, 02:01:10 PM »
Can someone show me a photo of the New Course with sand faced bunkers?...