What is the Future of American Private Club Golf?

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

I could at least understand if it was Tom Brady worried about bumping into Kraft at that illegal brothel in Florida.

But a golf course?  Who knew it was so embarrassing? 

[John Kavanaugh]

Ok, so not two minutes ago I decide to pull in the local quicky mart for a slice of breakfast pizza. Turns out I went to high school with the girl, we're both 59, who is working the register. I can't remember who the hell she is. That is 100% on me and my own arrogance. So, yes it is embarrassing and not just for the fact I was eating breakfast pizza from a quicky mart. I'm just grateful I didn't see anyone else I knew as I sat in my car stuffing my face.

[Gib_Papazian]

The new generation lives in an ephemeral world. They hop from job to job - and switch brand loyalties the second something better comes along. Most of all, they travel light, are absolutely mobile and commit to nothing. The only thing permanent in their lives are their tats . . . .


So, Club Corp comes along with a business model that makes sense for their mobile lifestyles. Most of these kids would get bored playing the same track over and over - and do not seem impressed with the status of belonging to a country club. Old paradigm . . . . . . they want endless options and flexibility, so it does matter if they take a job in a different city - or even the other side the city they are in.


I work with a guy who joined early - and his son (road warrior) and daughter-in-law followed right behind. Now, they have a private golf club in most every major city, not including tennis, lunch and workout facilities. The Club Corp guys have a treasure chest  of money and buying every facility they can get their hands on.


The truth is, most private clubs are not run with the efficiencies and stability of a business. People cycle in and off the Board and GC, each with their own agenda and ideas. Most of these millennials who wander in and out of my house don't want to be bothered with anything - because everything else in their lives is instantly at their fingertips.


"The Future" is probably like the rest of the modern American economic matrix - consolidation, with cafeteria style memberships. And more V.C. types will parrot this business model, so more buying groups will spring up. This generation spends their leisure time in far more diverse ways - golf is an activity, like mountain biking or playing WarCraft.


Most of them - reasonably avid golfers - in this new generation, have never heard of Pine Valley and do not give a shit. Golf is golf, as long as the greens are smooth and the cart girl is hot, they swing from the heels. Back tees, which one of the four Club Corp facilities in our city shall we tell the Uber driver to take us?   


The idea of spending your leisure time, primarily at one club, that is not the way these kids think. I've got enough of them running around our house . . . . . .  [/size]   

[Jeff Schley]

John,

At the end of the day, its basically an issue of permission.

If one has to get special permission to play a course, whether its thru a phone call or nicely written letter or a pro setting up reciprocal play... its a private course.  But if they advertise limted tee times for anyone to show up and pay like the UK model or a Pasatiempo, then its semi-private.

Its really no more complicated than that.

I agree.  I don't care about squabbling over the definitions or what certain words my convey, it is the concept.  I am a member of a club and it is for use by members and their guests.  There are various ways to get access by non members, i.e. Monday outings, unaccompanied play sponsored by a member, maybe even a trial round for perspective members.  Who cares if that may change someone's definition to fit their view.  We know the boundaries of what a private golf club is and typically it includes some of the above, call it what you will. 

Also in regards to the actual topic of this thread, which is the future of private club in the US, a couple thoughts:1. Consolidation, market efficiency, whatever you want to call survival of the fittest will prevail and the weak will fail the strong will survive.  Some clubs will fail and there will be less is for certain IMO.
2. The status quo is always hard to change and I don't think anything fundamental about the model will change.  Initiations will be there (smaller for less prestigious clubs), however with the key to keep dues paying members at a premium over the initiations. If you lower the cost of entry, but gain a long term member that is more valuable as it is an annuity as opposed to a lump sum for clubs. 

3. I like the UK model of having members with preferred tee times or days for play then guest play at certain times or other days. More cost efficient to operate as the pool of golfers decreases you are appealing to more of that demographic to make ends meet. Top clubs won't do this, but others will convert to semi-private first and hopefully survive or die.
4. Youth programs we will always have high hopes for, but because of kids having so many options to spend their time and digital games etc. I think golf has a hard time keeping their attention and isn't for a large population of the youth as a result. Not an easy sell, so youth participation will continue to disappoint unfortunately.
5. I think you can get more women to play and this should be encouraged more than it is. Having a spouse who plays is a wonderful thing IMO, but not as common for various reasons. there is an adversarial relationship at golf clubs between the men and women for very trivial reasons.  Embrace and come up with innovations to increase their participation at private clubs. I don't have the answers, but it takes a varied think tank of people to brainstorm that.
BTW can we call Cypress Point semi-private as they used to (or maybe still do) allow unaccompanied play sponsored by members?

[John Kavanaugh]

One of my clubs was just purchased by an organization similar to ClubCorp and it's the best thing that ever happened to us. One thing that confuses me. When someone asks me how many clubs am I a member of I don't know if that organization counts as 1 or the 5 total clubs where I have membership privileges.


The great thing about having an organization buy your course is that they do far more than just ship strangers in to fill up tee times. They not only make significant infrastructure and cultural improvements, they allow you to play the other courses in their portfolio.


With a non club club like Burnt Toast all I did was provide the butter and got none of the jelly.

[Lou_Duran]

JK- the two of us have gotten both, more butter and jelly, than we deserve.


There is a big distinction between private and semi-private clubs in the U.S., though you could argue that golf here is a continuum ranging from anyone to very few can play.  ANGC is accessible to people who know members.  Most anyone can probably get a tee time at my home club with a call to the DoG and a good reference.  Members who want super exclusivity and can pay for it have their places.


Most folks I know understand that there are few if any diminishing returns for having an accommodating guest policy (I am told that even ANGC encourages it members to bring guests; places like Sand Hills with a limited season and a difficult labor market depend on it). I think that many of the exclusive clubs desire just a limited amount of exclusivity.  How can your club be known for its greatness if no one outside of a small membership ever plays it?  Ask your many rater friends if members of clubs which trade on exclusivity complain much about their ratings.


To answer your question, you are a member of 1 club which has x # of courses and access to y # more.  Unless you like to inflate your importance, of course.     

[Sean_A]

Ok, so not two minutes ago I decide to pull in the local quicky mart for a slice of breakfast pizza. Turns out I went to high school with the girl, we're both 59, who is working the register. I can't remember who the hell she is. That is 100% on me and my own arrogance. So, yes it is embarrassing and not just for the fact I was eating breakfast pizza from a quicky mart. I'm just grateful I didn't see anyone else I knew as I sat in my car stuffing my face.

JK

You are a complicated guy.

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

John’s definition of private boils down to whether a club allows unaccompanied play. If it does then it’s not truly private in his estimation. If I am wrong please chime in.

[John Kavanaugh]

Specifically unaccompanied play by strangers. A postmark does not certify friendship.

[Jeff Schley]

Specifically unaccompanied play by strangers. A postmark does not certify friendship.

So those that have donated unaccompanied foursomes to charity auctions, to generous strangers, is something that would jeopardize their status as private in this definition.

[John Kavanaugh]

Private clubs donate threesomes.

[Kalen Braley]

I think this boils down to John's definition vs the rest of the world.

If Unaccompanied play means a course is semi-private then add Cypress to the list because that's how i played it...

P.S.  Add ANGC to that list because even The Masters allows unaccompanied play! 

[John Kavanaugh]

I've joined 4 courses over my lifetime without playing them before I became a member. I would call and ask if I could play. They would kindly inform me that I could if I was a member. I accepted their terms.

[Kalen Braley]

I've joined 4 courses over my lifetime without playing them before I became a member. I would call and ask if I could play. They would kindly inform me that I could if I was a member. I accepted their terms.

Jk,


That sounds a bit like bragging about buying a car before taking it for a test drive....I suppose you could be proud of that... 

[John Kavanaugh]

The manager drove me around for a look. What could I have possibly learned from playing an actual round?

[Kalen Braley]

The manager drove me around for a look. What could I have possibly learned from playing an actual round?

John,


If it all worked out well, with no buyers remorse, then i'm happy for you!

[Tim Martin]

The manager drove me around for a look. What could I have possibly learned from playing an actual round?

John,


If it all worked out well, with no buyers remorse, then i'm happy for you!

Almost like a blind date, Your always hopeful but sometimes you have to run for the exits.

[John Kavanaugh]

After joining the last thing that will disappoint you is the architecture.

[John Kavanaugh]

I got burnt by someone I thought was a friend when he used me to get a free round under the guise of becoming a member. He revealed after the round that he had no intention of joining and thought no one got hurt. He never understood that he was stealing from me the whole time.


I don't believe there is a legit reason for a serious golfer to require playing a course before they join. Just one more of a thousand scams you will see if you stick around private clubs for 50 years.

[JMEvensky]

I don't believe there is a legit reason for a serious golfer to require playing a course before they join. Just one more of a thousand scams you will see if you stick around private clubs for 50 years.

Truer words were never spoken--especially the 2nd sentence.

[Kalen Braley]

John,


I wouldn't want him as a member anyways, so sounds like it worked out for you.  I've never played a Private under the pretense of becoming a member.  They have all been invites or as an unaccompanied guest otherwise.

[Daryl David]

I spend about half my day worried I'm going to bump into someone I know.



This is sentence of the year as far as I am concerned. 


Runner up: Privacy may be the single most important issue in my life today.[/size] [/color]

[Mike Sweeney]

I don't believe there is a legit reason for a serious golfer to require playing a course before they join. Just one more of a thousand scams you will see if you stick around private clubs for 50 years.

Jaka,



1) Such a great title for a golf book!


2) Drone Update - You have to admit, this drone footage would prompt a guy sitting in NYC with an Irish name in 33 degree (oops 1 degree Celsius) rain and snow to join Enniscrone GC site unseen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWu2TmZSNHc&t=2s And yes, I did join without seeing, playing, or viewing drone footage.

3) The lines between private and public may be shifting, but one thing continues - people make the difference. An old GCAer saw my post and told me to get an updated GUI card (Irish Member) for use at the other Irish clubs. I contacted Enniscrone, and an old-fashioned physical card is coming in the old fashioned postal mail. Blending old and new, the system works!!

PS - I finally figured out my confusion with "Burnt Toast". I was thinking the "Fried Egg" newsletter was tied in somehow to your Burnt Toast reference. In the words of Judge Lavin, "often wrong, never in doubt!!"

[archie_struthers]

 


If Kavanaugh ever opens a hijacking company I'm all in. 

[John Emerson]

I think this answer can have many deep answers, but IMHO the biggest problem is that the middle class is slowing getting smaller and smaller as the years go by.  The middle class thus has less disposable income to spend on things like golf.  I truly believe this is the biggest factor.  Not to get too political, but at no point since the 30’s-ish (I believe) has the gap between the haves and have nots been so large.  Being that golf is a somewhat costly sport, it makes it harder to justify the club dues.