Why isn't the Canadian Open played somewhere to promote tourism?

[John Kavanaugh]

What a horrid, horrid course. Reminds me of The Rail is Springfield, Illinois.

[Dan Herrmann]

John - Glen Abbey is much better in person.  The cameras seem to have been placed to make the course look as ugly as possible.

[John Kavanaugh]

How about a mountain or something?  Anything that would make a guy want to visit. A quaint town, anything at all. I didn't watch long but didn't get a single taste of Canada.

[Nigel Islam]

Hamilton last year seemed to be a bland site, but the course looked interesting. They have had the tourney at Banff before too haven't they?

[Tom_Doak]

John:

As you should know, tournaments are played where sponsors want them played.  The sponsors want the Canadian Open to be played on big-city courses with room for corporate entertainment.

It's too bad Parks Canada doesn't have the cash to sponsor the event.

Julian Robertson has gone through the same thing in New Zealand.  He wanted to host the N.Z. Open on one of his courses to promote golf tourism in N.Z., but they were only interested if he would put up millions to host it.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Not just sponsors but also places where you are going to get galleries.  It is extremely likely that the tournament will continue to be held in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.

Glen Abbey was built specifically to host this event about 40 years ago and was Nicklaus' first solo design effort.  Architecturally it isn't anything special but it has all of the required infrastructure for a PGA tour event.  The course was built by the Royal Canadian Golf Association but they sold it about 15 years ago.  As part of the sale the course would continue to host a number of Canadian Opens and I believe there is one more to go.  After that the course may not host this event and there are rumours that the course may turn into a housing development.

@Nigel - Hamilton is not a bland site although the city of Hamilton is not pretty.  There is lts of elevation changes but sometimes that doesn't come across on TV.  It is a wonderful century old Colt course although it could use a bunker refresh.

It might be fun to hold the event at places like Jasper, Highland Links or Cabot Links, but that just isn't  practical, just like it isn't practical to hold the Open Championship at Royal Dornoch.  Those types of courses are more suitable too provincial Amateur championships or the Canadian Amateur.

[Greg Beaulieu]

In recent years it has been played at Glen Abbey, Hamilton, Shaughnessy in Vancouver, St. George's in Toronto, Angus Glen just outside Toronto, and Royal Montreal. Many of the best Canadian courses would be challenging from an infrastructure and fan base perspective but I do think they could make a bit more of an effort to get some variety and move it around more. Part of the problem is the current date right after The Open Championship, so when it goes to the west it is a very challenging trip for players who have competed in Britain the previous week.

I have played Glen Abbey and it is a tough course for guys like me but only the valley holes are particularly memorable. Still, it would be unfortunate if it became a housing development, although I imagine given its location it would be quite valuable for that.

[Wayne_Kozun]

If the course isn't a regular host of the Canadian Open they won't be able to get away with charging $235 for green fees so the owner, Clublink, might be tempted to sell the course given how much they could get for it.  But the valley holes wouldn't be suitable for housing.

[Dan Herrmann]

Greg - Shoot - I remember playing Glen Abbey in 1979 when I was 19.  First "good" course I ever played, and it was in the middle of nowhere.  Obviously, it's in the middle of everything now.

I think the contrast between Jack's early works like Glen Abbey and his later work like Dismal River is striking.

[Nigel Islam]

Greg - Shoot - I remember playing Glen Abbey in 1979 when I was 19.  First "good" course I ever played, and it was in the middle of nowhere.  Obviously, it's in the middle of everything now.

I think the contrast between Jack's early works like Glen Abbey and his later work like Dismal River is striking.

Dan for the ignorant could you expand on that?

[Don Hyslop]

Glen Abbey has been dropping like a stone in recent rankings of Canadian golf courses. Next year it is in Royal Montreal the course where the Presidents Cup was held a few years ago. Montreal is a great tourist location as is really the Metro Toronto area. CBS has pretty much stuck to golf and not dealt into what the surrounding area is like. Like Greg said, the factors of ease of transportation, population, clubhouse and locker room facilities, practice facilities are all taken into consideration and really you have to be close to a major metropolitan area to meet all those criteria.
The only time the Canadian Open was held east of the province of Quebec was in 1939 when it was held at the Riverside Golf and Country Club just outside Saint John, New Brunswick. Probably the only location in the Maritimes now would be the Metro Halifax region. Riverside by the way has hosted several Men's and Women's Canadian Amateur Championships. One of those Amateurs was won by Jim Nelford, in an other there Mike Weir lost the crown in a playoff.

[Dan Herrmann]

Don - good point.  Toronto is probably my favorite city in North America, but you see nothing of it from the CBS programming.   

[Carl Nichols]

I have a soft spot for golf courses with streams/rivers that look good for fishing, and this seems to qualify.

[Don Hyslop]

Glen Abbey does have its' issues but I do believe the closing #18, does provide for an exciting finishing hole. With the pin set like it is today, the risk/ reward of going for the hole make it truly exciting and this same pin position gave one of the great shots of my memory. Tiger's masterful 6 iron that enabled him to win the tournament.

[Ben Malach]

This is one of my major pet peeves. It make no sense why with so many great golf courses in western Canada and eastern Canada. That look and feel like Canadian golf courses why our national championship has to go to boring and uninspiring golf courses that feel American.One of the other issues right now is the Canadian open which was once seen as one of the top tier tournaments now through scheduling and management has fallen down the ladder to a merely average tournament. The one thing that I feel that Golf Canada should do better is tour the tournament better. It shocks me that our national tournament is almost exclusively played on courses in Ontario and Quebec. When there are so many great golf course around the country that would make for great host and add more flavor to my national championship. If only Golf Canada recognized the opportunity not only in tourism but in the ability to help grow the game in our country.   

[Don Hyslop]

Ben, it has been played in Vancouver, that leaves Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg as the only other possibilities in my opinion. It has been in the Maritimes only once and I don't see it happening here again any time soon. Until the PGA gives the Canadian Open better dates, it is less than attractive for players to go through a possible 8 hour time difference. I think better dates would allow for more movement in terms of courses. I would hope that with the money RBC is putting into the PGA that a better date will come soon. If it doesn't I could see RBC getting out.

[Greg Beaulieu]

The only time the Canadian Open was held east of the province of Quebec was in 1939 when it was held at the Riverside Golf and Country Club just outside Saint John, New Brunswick. Probably the only location in the Maritimes now would be the Metro Halifax region. Riverside by the way has hosted several Men's and Women's Canadian Amateur Championships. One of those Amateurs was won by Jim Nelford, in an other there Mike Weir lost the crown in a playoff.

If it were to come to Halifax there are realistically only two choices of course, either Glen Arbour or New Ashburn. Personally I think the latter is far superior to the former even if it is perhaps not quite as tough, but it would need to be beefed up somewhat with a few longer tees or additional bunkering. Halifax could certainly support it from an infrastructure and fan base point of view. Halifax also offers a shorter flight for those players coming from Britain the prior week.

[Mark Pearce]

Glen Abbey does have its' issues but I do believe the closing #18, does provide for an exciting finishing hole. With the pin set like it is today, the risk/ reward of going for the hole make it truly exciting and this same pin position gave one of the great shots of my memory. Tiger's masterful 6 iron that enabled him to win the tournament.

Really?  to me it looks like every other 18th hole on the PGA Tour.  Dogleg right with water all along the inside of the dogleg. Bunker left of the green.  Dull as hell in my book.

[Wayne_Kozun]

It make no sense why with so many great golf courses in western Canada and eastern Canada. That look and feel like Canadian golf courses why our national championship has to go to boring and uninspiring golf courses that feel American.

what makes a golf course look Canadian?  The Rocky Mountains?  I would agree that Glen Abbey and Royal Montreal aren't that great but Hamilton and St. George's are and Shaughnessy is pretty good?  They look American to you?  But you have to be realistic about where you are going to host a PGA tour event.  A lot of great courses, even in Toronto, can't handle such an event.  And what great courses are there in Eastern Canada other than Cabot and Highlands and hosting such an event at either is totally unrealistic.

In terms of this being a second tier event that is a tricky situation given the current tour structure.  To be honest I don't think it is any worse off compared to any of the other non-major/WGC events from mid-June to early Sep which are the only dates that would work for Canada.  RBC has done a good job to strengthen the field with all of the guys that they sponsor, like Snedeker, Kuchar, Furyk, Els, GMac, etc.  One thing that would attract a stronger field is to have it as a FedEx cup event but then you wouldn't have all of the extra Canadians in the field.

[Dan Herrmann]

I think the Canadian Open's heyday was back when it was the week after the US Open.  It's a shame it was moved around as much as it was.

Back to Jaka's original post.  I think the course was presented on TV very poorly.  In fact, I don't know if I've ever seen a course presented worse.  Bad camera locations were a big part of it - they made Glen Abbey look like the muni I grew up on in Buffalo.

[Marc Huther]

Hard to really judge a course without actually playing it.  However didn't look terrific on camera.

[Ian Andrew]

I'm grateful that the arrangement (as part of the terms of the sale) to play Glen Abbey ended this week. It is a very good place to watch an event on site because of the mounding and clear view of play all day. It's a dull course to play and I found it painful to watch on TV. I won't miss it if this was the last event played there.


The event will always be where the sponsor wants the event to be. They pay ... they choose the location (note: that's location, not the course). The bank's business is centered on Montreal and Toronto, so are their key clients, so that is where it will be played.

We appear to be in Montreal twice, Toronto once and Vancouver in the next four years. They are trying hard to create a regular rotation, but Hamilton, Royal Montreal and St. George's all want the event less frequently than they want to go there.

BTW - They looked into a "one off" in Banff two years ago, but the town has restrictions on visitors and events and that ended the possibility. They couldn't put the event on without an exemption for the event. The complications on that end are massive.