Unintended consequences, driver

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I have long felt that the 460cc limit was too big for drivers.  We have now watched a player win two weeks in a row.  I don't think he had a driver in the bag this week, I am not sure about last week.  The new faces on 3 woods are so hot that is it possible at the elite level, the 460cc driver is becoming extinct?  I would love to see the percentages, but I suspect that drivers were used less than 40% of the time on par 4's and par 5's at Murifield.
Those folks at Callaway must be rushing Phil's special 3 wood into production asap.
Is this the beginning of the end for the 460cc driver for the elite players?

Full disclosure: I don't like the look of the 460cc and play with TaylorMade's R7 425.  I am wondering if with the new face I could hit the 3 wood just as far and surely straighter.

[Bill Vogeney]

I have long felt that the 460cc limit was too big for drivers.  We have now watched a player win two weeks in a row.  I don't think he had a driver in the bag this week, I am not sure about last week.  The new faces on 3 woods are so hot that is it possible at the elite level, the 460cc driver is becoming extinct?  I would love to see the percentages, but I suspect that drivers were used less than 40% of the time on par 4's and par 5's at Murifield.
Those folks at Callaway must be rushing Phil's special 3 wood into production asap.
Is this the beginning of the end for the 460cc driver for the elite players?

Full disclosure: I don't like the look of the 460cc and play with TaylorMade's R7 425.  I am wondering if with the new face I could hit the 3 wood just as far and surely straighter.

Lynn, not sure how much you can extrapolate from Phil's win with that Frankenwood 3 metal. He has always been eclectic with his equipment, and arguably the driver is the worst club in his bag. Muirfield just happened to be playing so firm and fast, even I could have played it without a driver from the back tees.

[David_Tepper]

Personally, I am all for a push back against driver shaft lengths of 45" to 46", especially for double-digit handicaps (such as yours truly). I am more than willing to sacrifice the potential length a longer shaft may offer for the more consistent solid contact I can get with a 44"- 44 1/2" shaft.

 

[Connor Dougherty]

I do think that it had more to do with the conditions at Muirfield than the actual hotness of the 3 wood. Phil's 3 wood was more of a 2 wood at 13 degrees for Merion, so that also plays a role in it.

That being said, I'm surprised more amateurs don't try playing with the newer 3 woods and leaving the driver out of the bag. My good friend at the U of O hits his 3 wood (taylormade rocketballz) farther and much more accurately than his driver (the original Cleveland Hibore). He's thinking of getting a new driver, in which case I'll report what the difference is when he does.

Connor

[Andy Troeger]

I bought the Rocketballz three-wood about six weeks ago. I don't play a ton these days, but I probably have hit driver twice a round on average since I bought it, and have shot lower scores. In fact, I shot my first under-par nine in a few years and never pulled the head-cover off the driver. Never even considered it.

[John Ezekowitz]

This is topical as I just got done playing a round where I only hit two drivers. I am struggling with my driver right now, which is why I am not hitting it, but I have found that I hit my Ping I20 three wood long enough where I was able to play well on a pretty long golf course.

[Matthew Petersen]

I have a Rocketballz driver (9 degrees) and also a spoon (13 degrees). I find that because I can tee it really low I actually get more top spin and roll off the 3 wood/spoon and I can hit it nearly as far as my driver. Considering that's playing in Arizona, the land of the soggy fairway, it's saying something.

But, oddly, I hit the driver straighter.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I have long felt that the 460cc limit was too big for drivers.  We have now watched a player win two weeks in a row.  I don't think he had a driver in the bag this week, I am not sure about last week.  The new faces on 3 woods are so hot that is it possible at the elite level, the 460cc driver is becoming extinct?  I would love to see the percentages, but I suspect that drivers were used less than 40% of the time on par 4's and par 5's at Murifield.
Those folks at Callaway must be rushing Phil's special 3 wood into production asap.
Is this the beginning of the end for the 460cc driver for the elite players?

Full disclosure: I don't like the look of the 460cc and play with TaylorMade's R7 425.  I am wondering if with the new face I could hit the 3 wood just as far and surely straighter.

Lynn, not sure how much you can extrapolate from Phil's win with that Frankenwood 3 metal. He has always been eclectic with his equipment, and arguably the driver is the worst club in his bag. Muirfield just happened to be playing so firm and fast, even I could have played it without a driver from the back tees.

The Phrankenwood has 8.5 degrees of loft, is 45 inches in length.  It's size is 250cc.  You might say it was conditions at Murifield but he has been using sent Augusta.  No wonder he could reach 17 into the wind.

[RJ_Daley]

IIRC, when he was carrying 2 big headed drivers, one of them was a 46", 6 or 6.5* loft.  So, 8.5* sounds right for this frankenwood. 

Wouldn't the whole idea be to strategically meet the Muirfield conditions of long ball roll-outs, due to F&F?  Does Phil forgoe the driver on soft FW courses?  I don't know and haven't followed it that close.

I would agree with Lynn if he is saying one reason he doesn't like the big headed drivers due to the look of a clumsey elephant foot at the end of a stick.  Me too...

[JESII]

Are you guys saying the "3 wood" Phil is using has 8.5 degrees loft and 45 inches length?

[Tim Martin]

IIRC, when he was carrying 2 big headed drivers, one of them was a 46", 6 or 6.5* loft.  So, 8.5* sounds right for this frankenwood. 

Wouldn't the whole idea be to strategically meet the Muirfield conditions of long ball roll-outs, due to F&F?  Does Phil forgoe the driver on soft FW courses?  I don't know and haven't followed it that close.

I would agree with Lynn if he is saying one reason he doesn't like the big headed drivers due to the look of a clumsey elephant foot at the end of a stick.  Me too...

The longest club in his bag was the Callaway X Hot 3Deep 13 degree 3 wood. I have never heard of a 3 wood setup with 8.5 degrees of loft.

[Brent Hutto]

According to "WITB" reports from Muirfield he did not have that "Phrankenwood" small-headed, low-lofted club in the bag for the week of the Open. He did not feel it suited his game plan for the course.

Best not to get all worked up over a player using something he was not, in fact, using at all. Wait until his next clever, idiosyncratic equipment experiment. I doubt it will be long coming. Never is with Phil!

[Nigel Islam]

I think a lot of the pros have trended to 425-440 cc drivers. If you check the "Tour" versions of the OEM drivers a lot of them are a little smaller.

[JMEvensky]

Are you guys saying the "3 wood" Phil is using has 8.5 degrees loft and 45 inches length?

Per Golf World this morning,it's a deeper faced Callaway 3-wood, 13*,and 43 1/4 inches long.

[Brent Hutto]

Are you guys saying the "3 wood" Phil is using has 8.5 degrees loft and 45 inches length?

Per Golf World this morning,it's a deeper faced Callaway 3-wood, 13*,and 43 1/4 inches long.

Sounds like a pretty standard Tour-player 3-wood in other words.

[Jay Flemma]

I'll still play my new rocketballz 3-wood and love it!

[JMEvensky]

Are you guys saying the "3 wood" Phil is using has 8.5 degrees loft and 45 inches length?

Per Golf World this morning,it's a deeper faced Callaway 3-wood, 13*,and 43 1/4 inches long.

Sounds like a pretty standard Tour-player 3-wood in other words.

Article says 10% deeper faced--that's pretty stout,even for those guys.

[Carson Pilcher]

Phil mentioned in a post-round interview that it was an X-Hot 3 wood.

Also, as mentioned above, most "Tour" drivers are smaller than retail versions.  I know for a fact that Taylormade's Tour version drivers are 420 cc or 440 cc depending on the version.

[Josh Tarble]

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with clubhead size, but shaft length.   Allows most players to hit the clubface more squarely, equating into more distance and straighter ball flight.

[Garland Bayley]

I have a Rocketballz driver (9 degrees) and also a spoon (13 degrees). I find that because I can tee it really low I actually get more top spin and roll off the 3 wood/spoon and I can hit it nearly as far as my driver. Considering that's playing in Arizona, the land of the soggy fairway, it's saying something.

But, oddly, I hit the driver straighter.

Top spin! 

[Jason Thurman]

The setup at The Open is so firm and fast that it makes pure distance less of an asset and more of something that must be controlled. Guys weren't hitting 5 irons off the tee because they were running out farther than a driver would have. They were hitting 5 irons off the tee because they needed to control how far the ball went to have a better chance of keeping it in play.

460cc clubheads aren't going to vanish from Tour.

[Doug Siebert]

Personally, I am all for a push back against driver shaft lengths of 45" to 46", especially for double-digit handicaps (such as yours truly). I am more than willing to sacrifice the potential length a longer shaft may offer for the more consistent solid contact I can get with a 44"- 44 1/2" shaft.

 

If they were going to legislate the driver, I think it would be better to work on the head size and COR than shaft length.  What about a guy who is 6'6", he might want a driver longer than 45" just to avoid stooping over too much.

I've personally never owned a driver as long as 45".  I've them had built to 44" and 44.5" over the past decade.  Length isn't a problem for me with the driver, controlling it is, so a shorter driver than most use makes sense for me.

Drivers are always claiming to add length, one of the best ways to actually do so is to make it longer.  Golfers remember their longest drives, and may forget that they hit fewer of them in the fairway - they'll attribute that to being unfamiliar with the club and assume they'll straighten it out after they've used it a while.

[David_Tepper]

"If they were going to legislate the driver, I think it would be better to work on the head size and COR than shaft length.  What about a guy who is 6'6", he might want a driver longer than 45" just to avoid stooping over too much."

Doug S. -

I was certainly not intending to argue for any kind of legislation/ruling that would limit driver shaft length. I was simply suggesting that most "normal" sized golfers would be happier & more productive using a driver with a shaft of less than 45".

DT

[Brent Hutto]

Through extensive trial and error I have "titrated" my driver length to around 44-1/2" or 44-3/4" as being ideal. Any longer than about 45"  they feel unwieldy and start to swing me instead of me swinging them. From about 44" on down I tend to get a little quick and OTT. There is some sort of sweet spot around 44-3/4" where I swing more on plane and with a more consistent tempo.

When the first few 460cc, roughly 45" drivers hit the market I found I hit them much better than the old short+heavy ones. Then they started being 46" or occasionally even longer and I did not find the latest and greatest worked well.

[Kevin_Reilly]

This was Phil's bag makeup for the Open...it was the 13 degree 3 Deep as noted above.

http://mobile.golfweek.com/news/2013/jul/21/british-open-2013-phil-mickelson-equipment/?