[David Davis]

Gentlemen,

I'd like to start this thread by reflecting on a great week filled with more golf than most of us could handle. Personally I managed 11 rounds in 6 days. Having just returned from the US were I played 17 rounds in 17 days I've had enough golf to last me at least until next weeks medal. The BUDA was all walking and I have the blisters (even blood blisters) to prove it.

Let me paint a picture of what we experienced. 75-80 degrees, sun, no wind and the top 5 + a few more courses in The Netherlands. Heavy competition in nearly every round, amazing shots, camaraderie, wins and even the agony of defeat. Personally I even witnessed an act of some greater force when my opponents  recovery shot faced with utter catastrophe fell into a sprinkler pit on a steep downslope to a very nasty bunker allow for an easy drop (placement of the ball) and easy par rather than a lost hole. But I digress...that's golf.

I'm a little disappointed that the weather over cooperated as it just didn't give a realistic picture of what golf life is like here in The Netherlands. Nonetheless we made the most of it.

I'd like to ask everyone to mail me your final scores so we can adjust the BUDA Cup accurately. I'm certain Europe managed to win in the end along with some key designated batters I managed to drum up at the last minute. They've been called ringers but hey I did what I could to help my team when faced by unsurmountable odds.

To generalize the reactions about the courses and start this discussion and thread I'd like to make the following statements that seemed to be the feelings of BUDAites regarding the courses:

Noordwijkse - My personal favorite by a mile: great links terrain, shame for the holes with trees, very difficult, brutal rough, too many false fronts on greens. Best greens by a significant margin.

De Pan - Most fun, easiest walk, club that could be played day in and day out. Best architecture and use of land and best routing.

Royal Hague - most dramatic terrain, not to be played daily, many great holes. Firm and fast.

Kennemer - Great course, brutal rough, favor to B and C routings, great clubhouse.

Swinkelsche - please add feedback

Eindhovensche - please add feedback

Hilversumsche - please add feedback

I look forward to hearing all thoughts and crowing the Europeans team as BUDA champs, again.

[Ulrich Mayring]

You have got to mention the 5 star hotel that we got for a 3 star price. Even though I overheard that our esteemed Mr. Pearce is used to staying in more seedy places, I would wager that most BUDAites enjoyed that place very much.

All else being equal (dues, convenience to get there) I would join Kennemer. You have got to love three walkable nine hole loops of world class quality, manageable rough, no tee times and a fantastic clubhouse terrace. 18 Colt holes make for a great championship course and the Non-Colt loop is certainly good for 9 holes of after work excitement.

If I had just one round to play, I'd choose Royal Hague for the variety and the drama. I don't know what's wrong with that course. Does anyone?

The biggest challenge is certainly Noordwijkse. Very quick greens, very unforgiving off the fairway and a pretty tough walk. More of the very best links holes of the Netherlands are there than at any other course.

De Pan provides the best flow. While some of the holes on the front 9 are a bit similar, it does use them to good effect, namely to allow for a brisk pace of play.

Ulrich

[Bill Brightly]

What a wonderful week of golf! Getting the chance to play all the top courses in the Netherlands was such a treat, a trip that I will never forget. I know that all who attended truly appreciated all of the hard work that David put in to make it happen. Thank you once again.

When the Euro team had a few last minute cancellations, he went to his little black book, and came up with two pros, a +1 and a 1 handicap. David, do you have any golfing friends who are not superb golfers?

My wedge out of an impossible lie on Hole 16 at the Royal Hague was near perfect. One more yard and it carries right to the hole. It landed one yard on the green, just where I aimed it, from very thick heather. It should have pitched forward, but rolled back a bit, right into the sprinkler head cutout that I knew was there as a safety mechanism. But that was no easy two putt! Beware of a good grinder with a bad swing!

It is really hard to rank the courses after playing most only one time. I think Royal Hague was my favorite and I loved the fast and firm conditions. I loved their greens, even if they played a tad slower than Noordwijkse. RH certainly has the most dramatic site, but it is a very playable course. The walk is not easy and there are a fair number of climbs to the teeing area, (especially the back tees) but the views were well worth the walk. I am a fan of elevated tees but I know some may say there was too much of this. Playing the back nine in one under made the walk much easier.

Du Pan was just an absolute blast to play. This course wins the FUN contest, hands down. Here is a course which used elevated tees and greens more sparingly than RH, so when you come to a great hole like 17, the WOW factor is increased. IMO.

Noordwijkse is a great course for sticks, but very difficult for lesser players. The greens were superb and held shots, which is perfect for really good players who can easily carry the numerous steep upslopes to the greens. I understand that local nesting bird restrictions create an issue with what can be cut off the fairways/short rough, but it would really help lesser players if the playing corridors could be widened and the penalty for missing the fairways not quite so severe.

Kennemer was excellent, so many great holes on this property!

Hilversumsche was fun but would benefit from massive tree removal. I only pulled out driver once on the front nine (a mistake) and when the course finally opened up a bit for the last 7 holes, it was a welcome relief. You could see that there is a very good course there, but much of it was obscured by trees. The trees also keep much of the course in shade, especially tees and greens, so the turf would be so much better with selected tree removal.

I think the Euros had a solid lead, and were well on their way to winning, until the English contingent left early and the singles competition fell apart.  In any event, it was so nice to meet so many great guys. I'll be interested in hearing from some of the others who have a better "GCA eye" than me!

[Frank Pont]

David,

Great week, good recap. Sorry I could not attend more.

In terms of courses you forgot International. 

Maybe also include Hoge Kleij, Spa, Knokke and Turfvaert which were played by a subset of Buda

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Some Noordwijkse photos first! I'll post my comments later.


The heart breaking par three 17th at Noordwijkse.


Looking across the 16th hole towards the modest and charming clubhouse.


A man on a mission; Bill "The Grinder" Brightly marches towards another par at the 7th.


Looking back up the 8th hole at Noordwijkse.


Whitty having a moment at the greenside bunker of the 8th.


David Davis teeing off at the first during Monday's afternoon round.


Wouter plays a backhander at the 15th; it landed on the green!!


Whitty also trying to get close at the 13th.


John trying to get close at the 13th.


Dónal putting to the diabolical pin position at the 13th.


John & Wouter deep in conversation at the 11th tee.


John's tee shot at the par three sixt at Noordwijkse.


Wouter's tee shot at the par three sixt at Noordwijkse.


Noordwijk aan Zee strand.


The 5 star Huis ter Duin hotel.





The wonderful views from the hotel bedrooms.

Some photos from De Pan.


Utrecht GC De Pan clubhouse.


The wonderful short par four 17th (De Pan).


The spectacular short par four 10th (De Pan).


Traffic signals at De Pan 10th tee.


David Kelly plays a recovery to the third green (De Pan).


The surprise package at BUDA XI  . The 10th; yet another tame green at The International.
 

The par three 4th at The International.


The tumbling tenth fairway at Royal Hague.


The downhill long par three 8th (Royal Hague).


Ward booms one down the 1st at Royal Hague.


Andrew Hastie displays finesse and balance on the 1st tee.


With usual German precision, Ulrich divides the fairway with his drive at the 1st at Royal Hague.  


Bill, Conrad, Steve, Ulrich, Ward and Mike pose on the 1st tee (Royal Hague).


Royal Hague clubhouse.


The sun sets at Noordwijk aan Zee and heralds the closing of the first continental BUDA.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

A few more from Kennemer.


Hole 9 on the Pennink (B) nine.


The Kennemer cat.




Joe hitting his second to the 9th on the Colt (C) nine


Some spectators behind the ropes on the 7th (C-Colt).


Renamed "Mount Wilson". Steve hit a mashie up onto the green and drained a 40 footer for a birdie.


Just for fun, Joe tries a bunker shot at the 6th (C-Colt). His tee shot had already hit the green and he made par.


Steve donated his clubs to the golf club after his amazing feat at Mount Wilson.


Looking back down the par five 7th (A-Van Hengel).


The lovely 2nd on the Pennink nine.


David D, Dónal, David K, Mike, Hart.


Same photo, David D, Bill, David K, Mike, Hart.

[David Davis]

Donal,

Thank for the tour. Great photos. The only thing missing is your comments. Would be great to know what you thought of the courses as well

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks much to David and Frank for all of the work they did arranging the various courses.  Back to work today, will comment on the courses in the next day or so.

[Andrew Hastie]

Great to see all the photos coming in and I look forward to some good disscussion in the near future! Once again thank you to David and Frank for organizing everything!

By the way, I would love to hear everybody's favorite golf hole in The Netherlands?
I have no photos but my personal favorite is the 6th at the Royal Hague!

[Ulrich Mayring]

Here are my first three course albums with pictures and commentary below (pause the slideshow to read them):

https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/KoninklijkeHaagsche#slideshow/5903501831165912082
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/Noordwijkse02#slideshow/5903499522255021986
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/TheInternational#slideshow/5903500994164275890

Ulrich

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Finally, a few photos from Hilversumsche GC.


Hilversum's modest but very adequate clubhouse.


The surprising par three 14th. The bunkers were not visible from the yellow tees.


Kyle Phillip's 18th green surround.
 

The solid par three 8th.


David knocking one on the green from the dominating fairway bunker on hole six.

[David Davis]

Andrew, really? I wouldn't have ever guessed that's your favorite. 423 meters par 4 or something into the wind with a green you cannot really run it up on.

My favorite holes:

Noordwijkse #2, #8, #13 and #17
De Pan # 16, #10 and #8
Royal Hague #7 and #14
Eindhoven #2
Kennemer #C7 and C5. A3.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

[Andrew Hastie]

David,
Yes it's not the easiest hole! Par 4 1/2 especially in the wind.
It is certainly a better hole as a par4 now they have cleared out a lot of rough around the fairway, when I first played it anything outside the fairway was pretty much dead. 
A good driving hole were keeping the driver close to the sand dune on the right gives the best angle into the green. Second shot uphill to green protected with a sort of false front that runs into the bunker left or a deep swale right. Requires a very precise shot into the green. A tough hole but I like the challenge!
I believe after Frank's renovation they had to soften the slope into the green side bunker, a little to extreme!

I see you like blind shots or at least holes were it is difficult to see where you're going! Depending on the day and wind the 2nd & 8th have blind shots to the green.  Royal Hague 7 is blind tee shot and 14 you can see very little from where you're going. Kennemer C7 is also blind tee shot and the 10th at De Pan is also difficult to get a good line with your second shot.

[jvisser]

Good to read and see you had a great time.
Really sorry I missed out! Hope to be able to join another time.

I had to 'make do' with the following of which I'll try to make
a little summary soon:
- Royal St George's
- Huntercombe
- Oxford GC
- Frilford Heath Blue
- Woking
- Herkenbosch
Just before that I managed to play both Noordwijk (homecourse) and the Kennemer
All in all not bad either  ;-)

[David Davis]

David,
Yes it's not the easiest hole! Par 4 1/2 especially in the wind.
It is certainly a better hole as a par4 now they have cleared out a lot of rough around the fairway, when I first played it anything outside the fairway was pretty much dead. 
A good driving hole were keeping the driver close to the sand dune on the right gives the best angle into the green. Second shot uphill to green protected with a sort of false front that runs into the bunker left or a deep swale right. Requires a very precise shot into the green. A tough hole but I like the challenge!
I believe after Frank's renovation they had to soften the slope into the green side bunker, a little to extreme!

I see you like blind shots or at least holes were it is difficult to see where you're going! Depending on the day and wind the 2nd & 8th have blind shots to the green.  Royal Hague 7 is blind tee shot and 14 you can see very little from where you're going. Kennemer C7 is also blind tee shot and the 10th at De Pan is also difficult to get a good line with your second shot.

Andrew, actually you might just have something there. Never thought of that. Royal County Down is one of my favorite courses, blind shots galore there. I guess I like have to rely on your visualization of what's going to happen. I also putt with my eyes closed a lot and always fall back on that when I lose my feeling, plus I play my best in high wind and even rainy condition when visibility is poor.

However, that only works for a few of my favorite holes, the rest are not blind. Unless of course it's raining hard.

[David Davis]

Donal, while I laugh at your comments, you realize that bunker was about 250 yds from the hole with a steep face and I was hitting a 9 iron out of it. Something I think you are giving me more credit than I deserve. I DID however, make par and sink a 20 ft putt in doing so to win the hole.

Then I might of commented how nothing was falling!

[Ulrich Mayring]

I have a very simple question:

How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?

Ulrich

PS: More Slideshows:

https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/UtrechtseDePan#slideshow/5903702441978372962
https://picasaweb.google.com/realulim/Kennemer#slideshow/5903933801834866866

[Tony_Muldoon]

I have a very simple question:

How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?

Ulrich

Ulrich it must be something to do with how talented those old dead guys were.

So amongst others we've had a Buda in the land of dragons, the left handers one (Alwoodley) and now a Buda in Shorts!

Looked like I missed an amazing event.

[Tom_Doak]

I have a very simple question:

How come Frank Pennink is credited for having built the A loop at Royal Hague in 1985, when he died in 1983?

Ulrich

Ulrich:

I presume you mean Kennemer.  When I was there the first time, in 1983, 3-5 holes of the new nine were completed, though they hadn't started working on the rest that I could see.  Presumably these holes were Pennink's and he had drawn the plans for the rest.

[Bill Brightly]

Conrad and Steve



Mark, Ulrich and Ward



The very cool short par 4 # 16 at Royal Hague. One of my favorite holes from the trip.

[Bill Brightly]

The blind tee shoy at RH #7. As a fan of the occasional blind tee shot, I REALLY liked this hole:



The approach:

[Joe_Tucholski]

Looking back on the Netherlands portion of my trip there really was a lot of good golf.
We played two different modern courses and they were very different in nature.  The international reminded me of a number of CCFADs in the United States.  I think that is exactly what they are going for as well so they accomplished their mission.  Swinkelsche on the other hand is a course that has multiple options with most shots.  There are a number of holes that I wish I could play again.  For example on #8 I want to go back and try to hit a shot to the peninsula that sticks out on the right.  With the slope running away from the tee it may be tough to stop but I want to try it a few times.  Also wish I could re-hit my tee shot on #11.  I thought I hit a pretty darn good tee shot at the green but couldn’t find the ball (also didn’t see a cloud of dust in the waste area).  It was also interesting to hear Frank talk about getting paid to take soil that was used on the peripheries of the course.

As far as my favorite courses from BUDA I rank them:
Royal Hague
Utrecht De Pan
Kennemer (the first and last 9’s we played)
Noordwijkse
Eindhovensche

The two holes that stand out most in my mind are both par 3's.  The par 3 6th on the C course at Kennemer is an intimidating tee shot with the steep slope and bunkers at the bottom.  From the tee it looks like the bunkers would be impossible to get out of.  In reality the slope is not nearly as steep as it appears.  The greenside bunkers on 16 at PGA West Stadium are a bit more severe but don't look as intimidating when hitting your shot to the green.  The other hole is the 16th (?) and Eindhovensche (the view cleared by Frank along with the story make it quite memorable).

The experience that I’ll remember most from the Netherlands didn’t have much to do with golf but occurred after Hoge Kleij.  The course is adjacent to Camp Amersfoort which was used as a concentration camp during WWII.  The impressive 9th hole borders the current grounds for the memorial.  After the round I walked around the camp.  The visitor center was closed, no other cars were in the parking lot and I had the place to myself.  I walked the paths and can tell you it was a bit spooky seeing the ruins of the morgue and the rebuilt trenches.  Walking down a path towards a statue of an emaciated prisoner I got chills.  The walk is down a firing range with large land berms and wire on both sides.  It’s like walking down a tunnel where all you see is grass berm, barb wires and tree canopy above.  I’m not sure if it was a location utilized for executions but that’s definitely the feeling you get walking alone down the path.  I’m glad I was able to walk back out to the car.

[Joe Perches]

Anyone have any comments about Swinkelsche?

I think that's the only one that's had a routing map posted.

[Chris DeNigris]

Great photos of some really interesting courses.

Is the 17th at De Pan as amazing in real life?

That greensite looks out of this world good...

[Joe_Tucholski]

Joe P.  I commented a bit on Swinkelsche.  The course is good fun and seems like a great option to play at a modest 50 Euro price tag (supposedly low cost in the Netherlands).  There is a lot to it that the GCA crowd will like.  To go further it was the best modern course I played of the 40 or so courses I played in the last month (only 4 were modern courses though). 

Chris the whole course at De Pan is really solid.  I was down on 17 at De Pan after playing pretty well.  Not sure if you are able to get a good picture of the verticality of the hole.  There is fairway then a fairly steep rise where the rough is.  The first bunker on the right is about half way up the rise.  On the card the hole plays 270ish meters.  I was thinking under 300 yards.  I can hit driver hard and maybe hit partway up the slope and hope it runs to the farway short of the green (David played a 3 wood to center fairway).  I hit a solid drive a bit to the right and hoped it flew into the bunker...it didn't get that far and rolled to the bottom of the hill just into the rough.  When I walked to my ball I realized the fairway short left of the green is really small.  I don't know exactly how I was fooled into thinking it was larger than it was.  I remember feeling like the fairway area was smaller than the green...even in the picture it looks like a large area.

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