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Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2013, 04:46:04 PM »
If you ever get the chance to sit in the truck during a golf telecast, take the opportunity. There's a lot going on in there.

A decent buddy of mine is Chuck Will.  He was Frank Chirkinian's right-hand man during CBS golf broadcasts for many years.  I've never got to sit in a truck during a telecast, but Chuck has painted a pretty neat picture of what it used to be like.  I need to get him minimum do a long interview or maybe even consider teaming up with someone and write a book.  He's told me lots of good stories for sure.   :)
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Greg Beaulieu

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2013, 05:59:22 PM »
Van Pelt really rubs me the wrong way.  He has moderately toned down his cynical attitude on golf TV from a few years ago, but I just find him egotistical and negative.  He is too jive for golf, even toned down.

He made snide little jokes the first three days that the announcers all enjoyed with guffaws but I suspect not the viewers - like me.

That pretty much sums up my feelings about him. When he was with TGC in the late '90s he was their up-and-comer, and quickly jumped on the Tiger bandwagon. But I never liked his style and delivery. He came across as a smartass know-it-all. And still does.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2013, 06:24:56 PM »
Compared to Zinger and Strange, Van Pelt is Henry Longhurst...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Greg Beaulieu

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2013, 06:29:09 PM »

Jim McKay, was a bit before my time and I wasn't too big on their choices for the 18th tower. However, I always thought their supporting cast was really good. Steve Melnyk was a matter of fact voice that I really miss. Also, it was great when they had Peter Aliss doing regular tour events.  He seemed to bring some additional weight to events like Memphis and New Orleans.
Melnyk was very good, I had forgotten all about him.

IMO, Jim McKay was the very best host/anchor ever. It just seemed like an important event when he was in the chair and you heard "Love's Theme" in their open. I remember Byron Nelson being their lead analyst in the early '70s, which was unique, but Byron was never really a broadcaster, despite his insight. The broadcasts improved when Dave Marr moved into that role.

Somewhat controversially, ABC fired Marr after 1991 and replaced him with Melnyk. Melnyk had been a hole announcer with CBS Golf for many years and was not really suited to the role of lead analyst. They replaced him with Peter Jacobsen in 1993 but that ill-fated experiment lasted only the one year and Melnyk went back into the role in 1994. Strange arrived for spot duty in '95 and eventually replaced Melnyk as lead analyst in '98. Melnyk hung around until 2004 but was only used sparingly, going back to his role as a hole announcer for the most part. Strange left after 2003 but came back in 2010.

That instability seemed to be chronic at ABC in the 1990s and beyond. ABC Golf started to wobble in the late 1980s when they replaced McKay with Whitaker in the anchor spot and then replaced Whitaker with Roger Twibell in 1990, leaving Whitaker as host but with not really much to do. In '92 they replaced Twibell with Brent Musburger and things really went downhill, but he stayed in the anchor role until 1997 when Tirico arrived. Their saving grace was the presence of Alliss, Rosberg, Rankin, North, and Ed Sneed amidst the musical chairs going on around them. ABC Golf seemed to constantly be in turmoil after the early '90s, and it showed in their on-air product.
 

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2013, 07:24:56 PM »
I would love to hear Droopy, Foghorn Leghorn and Yosemite Sam take a whack at commentating a golf tournament.

Just for fun.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Brent Hutto

Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2013, 07:35:40 PM »
I would love to hear Droopy, Foghorn Leghorn and Yosemite Sam take a whack at commentating a golf tournament.

Just for fun.

Otherwise known as Mike, Curtis and Zinger right?

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2013, 08:47:11 PM »
I used to enjoy Rosburg and he may be the only announcer to have a golf term named after him "Look at that lie - I have been Rosburged".

ABC used to also have Jack Nicklaus as an analyst on their team for at least some of the majors.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2013, 09:00:29 PM »
Could it be that the reason for the lack of quality from the announcers was due to their lack of familiarity with the course and the game which is played on that course ?

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2013, 01:27:07 AM »
Could it be that the reason for the lack of quality from the announcers was due to their lack of familiarity with the course and the game which is played on that course ?

No, it was the lack of a strong producer to know what he wanted in a telecast – how to weave in the story lines, adapt to changes in the leaderboard, while staying in ABC's (and whoch should be ESPN's) style, which was different in two ways in the glory years from CBS and NBC.

First, ABC had rotated play-by-play by segment, not by hole. McKay would work a segment with Marr, then Alliss would work alone, and so forth. When Whitaker came along, it was McKay/Marr, then Whitaker/Marr, then Alliss, and so on. McKay/Marr would always get the first and last (in regulation) segment.

Second, the foot soldiers, Rossie and the like, would talk after the booth set up the shot, but without an audible cue. They knew when to come in and were succinct. (None of this, "Johnny, he has 149 and has an 8-iron." It was just, "He has 149, an 8-iron from a horrible lie.")

CBS and NBC threw it (and still throw it) from hole to hole, which meant a loss of continuity in the train of thought at times. In contrast, McKay or Alliss, natural storytellers, could build on a theme for eight or 10 minutes. By 1980, ABC's announcers all worked out of the same position, which eventually was near the 18th hole to give a real backdrop for the open of the show, rather than a Chroma-key (as seen in the 1971 U.S. Open).

For the longest time, Chuck Howard was ABC's golf producer. He and Roone Arledge also fancied the high crane camera (as BBC always has) to show the ball in the air in relation to the ground.

CBS's Frank Chirkinian, not allowed to use them at Augusta National, had lower angled cameras, and was never infatuated with the flight of the ball against the sky (as NBC was before Tommy Roy took over in 1995). Chirkinian wanted the reaction shot of the player, figuring his face and body English would tell you how the shot would turn out. Then he'd cut to a shot of the fairway or green and we would (or would not) see the ball.
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Tom ORourke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2013, 07:31:37 AM »
I always thought over the years that ABC was very good visually but did not always have the best announcers. I still remember Musberger referring to John Daly's "0 iron" as a club with zero degrees of loft. But the Open is tough visually with the brown fairways and the difficulty of trying to see the ball against that backdrop. The in-flight shots only work well against a dark background, like the tee shots on 13 against the grandstand. They were on for so many hours each day that I was grateful for the coverage, but there is no need to fill every second with talk. I was surprised that some of the critical shots of the day were not put into historical context with old footage. I thought I would see the Thomas Bjorn sand shots after Westwood left it in the sand. I was expecting to see Harrington's great shot to the 17th green at Birkdale for eagle after Phil hit the green. I am sure you can all think of other examples. I thought it would be interesting to see how other opens followed similar paths. Overall I would give it a C+ or B.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2013, 03:39:04 PM »
How to televise the Open Championship, c. 1970: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupK48O5Bx0
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Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2013, 09:25:22 PM »
Doug Sanders really was the forerunner to Ricky Fowler in fashion and Ben Crane in pace of play.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2013, 10:00:35 PM »
O!  What I would pay to see Vin Scully do golf again

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2013, 02:40:39 AM »
Doug Sanders really was the forerunner to Ricky Fowler in fashion and Ben Crane in pace of play.

I didn't remember that Sanders was so fidgety. That tee shot on 17 was painful to watch, and I cued up the action in 18 green for a group at a tournament today. To a man, they said of his second putt, "Hit it!"

There but for the grace of God...
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John Percival

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2013, 07:58:26 AM »
Doesn't the BBC do all the camera work, ABC/ESPN gets the feeds and edit it?

And the on course commentary should remember a simple rule of play etiquette - 'don't comment until the shot has stopped'
If they're gonna predict, then 'difficult or near impossible to get home' not 'cant get home'

And Strange is the WORST ever....funky accent, seems to hate being there (we all get old, pal), butchers names or gets them completely wrong. What happened to IBF?

Zinger is often good, but he gets too many erections for TW

Why doesn't CBS grab the rights and do it proud?

Just a bit too much water on Sunday. Needed a bit more on Thursday. Simple rule - just a hint of light green color.

Finally, for all u TOC tournament honks...the old girl's gonna need be even dryer than Thursday or they'll break -20 and 63's going down.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2013, 01:16:04 AM »
Doesn't the BBC do all the camera work, ABC/ESPN gets the feeds and edit it?

And the on course commentary should remember a simple rule of play etiquette - 'don't comment until the shot has stopped'
If they're gonna predict, then 'difficult or near impossible to get home' not 'cant get home'

And Strange is the WORST ever....funky accent, seems to hate being there (we all get old, pal), butchers names or gets them completely wrong. What happened to IBF?

Zinger is often good, but he gets too many erections for TW

Why doesn't CBS grab the rights and do it proud?

Just a bit too much water on Sunday. Needed a bit more on Thursday. Simple rule - just a hint of light green color.

Finally, for all u TOC tournament honks...the old girl's gonna need be even dryer than Thursday or they'll break -20 and 63's going down.


In the early 1960s, ABC took BBC's coverage exclusively. By the late 1960s, ABC had some of its own cameras on the last holes; that gradually increased. It took a long time and some negative reviews, but by the time ABC had 18-hole coverage of the British Open, it added a lot of cameras. Today, it's almost like a Ryder Cup, with parallel coverage from BBC and ESPN. I'm sure some of the high cameras are shared, but remember how many holes had two camera scaffolds behind the green: one for BBC, one for ESPN.
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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sorry to be negative but ABC's coverage
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2013, 01:22:59 AM »
I did not like seeing either sets of high cameras - they marred the landscape like giant robots.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.