[Sean_A]

Bob

Yes, we definitely have a difference of opinion as to what makes for a great (not good) par 5. 

TOC (1)
Cruden Bay (2)
Muirfield (2)
Sunny New (1)
Deal (1)
Prestwick (1)

I am sure there are more than 20 great par 5s in GB&I, but my point was the number is far smaller than 3s & 4s.

Ciao

[Tom Kelly]

Despite being short I actually think Liphook's par 5s are all great holes. It could perhaps do with a longer one in the bunch to balance them out as they are all 4.5's rather than true 3 shot par 5s. The use of the sloped land in the driving zones on 13 and 18 make for great approach shots to huge false fronts, whilst the green on 5 is just awesome.

As for my head to head...

1. E Wins    E+1   Liphook's 1st is better than it first appears, a really good green but Edgbaston offers more interest overall
2. L wins     AS    One of my favourite par 4's at Liphook, great tilted fairway and really cool approach over the road to a severe green.
3. L wins     L+1   Picture postcard par 3 that's really deceiving.
4. Half         L+1  Nice par 4 around the tree with some cool landforms against a solid but straight away long 4 with another cool green.
5. L wins     L+2   That green.
6. E wins     L+1   Great fairway against one of the more mundane holes at Liphhook despite an interesting cape drive over the tree.
7. L wins     L+2   Two great par 3's. Edgbaston's with a lot of trees gone and a re-modelled bunker could be spectacular, Liphook's is.
8. Half         L+2   Both solid holes, another good green at Liphook makes the hole, better hole off the back tees?
9. L wins     L+3    Two good holes, but Liphook's 9th is fantastic quirk.

10. E wins   L+2    Would like to play Liphook off the original tee, restricted now. Really really strong par 4, Edgbaston wins easily.
11. L wins   L+3    What a great looking golf hole.
12. E wins   L+2    Straight away 4 loses out to the lake and tilted fairway. Trees up on the right need to go though.
13. L wins   L+3    No brainer.
14. Half       L+3   Both courses weak points hit at the same time, 14 & 15.
15. Half       L+3   Uphill slog against internal out of bounds...
16. Half       L+3   Liphook uses awkward land well , Edgbaston could be a great hole but for the tress and modern equipment.
17. Half       L+3   Two interesting holes, Liphook suffers from a boring green, and Edgbaston can feel like an uphill  slog.
18. L wins   L+4    Two solid finishers, but the cool approach at Liphook wins the day for me.

Liphook wins +4

[Paul_Turner]

Sean

I have vague memories that Edgbaston made Peter Alliss's Top 100 book.  Wondering if anyone has a copy of his review.

[Mark Chaplin]

I tuned in thinking this was a debate about a good dry wicket that takes a little spin!

Sean - can a decent club keep good conditions, make a little money and make sure members get to play without being overrun with visitors for under £50 near a major city?

[Sean_A]

Despite being short I actually think Liphook's par 5s are all great holes. It could perhaps do with a longer one in the bunch to balance them out as they are all 4.5's rather than true 3 shot par 5s. The use of the sloped land in the driving zones on 13 and 18 make for great approach shots to huge false fronts, whilst the green on 5 is just awesome.

As for my head to head...

1. E Wins    E+1   Liphook's 1st is better than it first appears, a really good green but Edgbaston offers more interest overall
2. L wins     AS    One of my favourite par 4's at Liphook, great tilted fairway and really cool approach over the road to a severe green.
3. L wins     L+1   Picture postcard par 3 that's really deceiving.
4. Half         L+1  Nice par 4 around the tree with some cool landforms against a solid but straight away long 4 with another cool green.
5. L wins     L+2   That green.
6. E wins     L+1   Great fairway against one of the more mundane holes at Liphhook despite an interesting cape drive over the tree.
7. L wins     L+2   Two great par 3's. Edgbaston's with a lot of trees gone and a re-modelled bunker could be spectacular, Liphook's is.
8. Half         L+2   Both solid holes, another good green at Liphook makes the hole, better hole off the back tees?
9. L wins     L+3    Two good holes, but Liphook's 9th is fantastic quirk.

10. E wins   L+2    Would like to play Liphook off the original tee, restricted now. Really really strong par 4, Edgbaston wins easily.
11. L wins   L+3    What a great looking golf hole.
12. E wins   L+2    Straight away 4 loses out to the lake and tilted fairway. Trees up on the right need to go though.
13. L wins   L+3    No brainer.
14. Half       L+3   Both courses weak points hit at the same time, 14 & 15.
15. Half       L+3   Uphill slog against internal out of bounds...
16. Half       L+3   Liphook uses awkward land well , Edgbaston could be a great hole but for the tress and modern equipment.
17. Half       L+3   Two interesting holes, Liphook suffers from a boring green, and Edgbaston can feel like an uphill  slog.
18. L wins   L+4    Two solid finishers, but the cool approach at Liphook wins the day for me.

Liphook wins +4

I think the crux of our difference of opinion is my much higher opinion of Edgbaston's long 4s.  I would have 2, & 8 as winners and if I had to choose without a draw as an option #4 would win out as well.  The strength of Edgbaston is its banger par 4s which you don't seem to care for.  I think they are absolutely necessary to give the course that bit of gnarl which none of Lips par 5s have.  In fact, the prettiest par 5 of Lips, #13, would work far better as a long par 4 because the water hazard is on a dopey place.

I also think the weakest part of Lips, the collection of short 4s (8, 10, 14, 15 & 16), fall at fortunate places in the round for matchplay.

Ciao

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