Muirfield 1966 - Can you identify which hole this is?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

While browsing some clips of previous Opens at Muirfield, I was intrigued by this clip from 1966:

http://www.theopen.com/en/History/PreviousOpens.aspx?eventid=1966000&view=

Which hole is shown at the very start of the film clip? Is it the 11th? If yes, the cross bunkers are gone.

The hole looked at lot closer to the sea than it appears today; looks like a lot of sand has been deposited in the last 50 years.

[Paul_Turner]

Donal

It's confusing.  The 11th is the only hole that sort of fits but from old plans and aerials etc it's not right...no cross bunkers are in any of the old photos that bunker near the green is too central and the green hasn't been moved since its creation in the early 1920s.  I was trying to find if it's another course (Gullane?) but couldn't find a candidate.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Could it be the 15th?

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=56.044363&lon=-2.828035&z=17&m=b

[Paul_Turner]

Ross

I think you are right.  Played from the shorter tee directly behind the 14th green....cross bunkers more "head on".

[Rich Goodale]

Ross

I think you are right.  Played from the shorter tee directly behind the 14th green....cross bunkers more "head on".

Agreed.

[Simon Holt]

15 was my first thought too.

[Bill_McBride]

Gents, how can it be 15 if the firth is in the background?   Could it be 5?   It doesn't really look like there's a hole to the left. 

[Colin Sheehan]

I'm fairly certain that's the 15th hole. From the elevated perspective, the view over the growth on the ground is minimized. Looks at Muirifled on google maps and you'll see the firth directly beyond the hole.

[Simon Holt]

If it was 5 you would have what is now the Renaissance Club behind it and the turf nursery to the left.

99.9% its 15.  The 2nd green will be obscured by the mounding to the back left, and we know as you play the 2nd the Firth is not far to the left of the wall, beyond the dense vegetation.  The hole to the left of the hole we are looking at is the 16th coming back towards to the East.

[Niall C]

Simon

Nip round and take a photo.

Thanks

Niall 

[Bill_McBride]

My recollection from one 36 hole day is that 15 heads directly toward the wall behind 2, parallel to 3.  

Whoops!   Googled "Muirfield aerial" and now see that the firth wraps around the course and is actually quite close behind the second green.  

But does there appear to be enough room behind the green for the second green?   From the aerial the two greens are within thirty yards of each other.  

[Bill_McBride]

You also have to wonder why the hell the club would have ever filled in those spectacular cross bunkers!   

[Garland Bayley]

If it was 5 you would have what is now the Renaissance Club behind it and the turf nursery to the left.

99.9% its 15.  The 2nd green will be obscured by the mounding to the back left, and we know as you play the 2nd the Firth is not far to the left of the wall, beyond the dense vegetation.  The hole to the left of the hole we are looking at is the 16th coming back towards to the East.

It sure looks like the 15th on Google Earth and the bunkers are still there.

EDIT: Causing Google Earth to take a very low angle view tends to make the 2nd green disappear in the background. Must be at a lower elevation as the ground is sloping away to the water there. Looks like a view from 14th green.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Yes, it's the 15th and the bunkers are still there. I think the more interesting question is not which hole this is but why it's so difficult for us to identify both as the same hole.

The narrow answer is someone changed the dogleg (at least for floggers). The broader answer is the more interesting discussion.

[Garland Bayley]

...I think the more interesting question is not which hole this is but why it's so difficult for us to identify both as the same hole.
...

I thought it was pretty obvious when I looked on Google Earth. But, then I have not had the disadvantage of having been there.

[Bill_McBride]

Yes, it's the 15th and the bunkers are still there. I think the more interesting question is not which hole this is but why it's so difficult for us to identify both as the same hole.

The narrow answer is someone changed the dogleg (at least for floggers). The broader answer is the more interesting discussion.

There are two tees on that hoke, separated by about 30^o.  The left tee creates a dogleg left, the right tee a straight hole about 30 yards longer.   You can see two walking paths on the aerial view. 

[James Bennett]

I think Muirfield's 15th hole and the two tees needs a thread of its own.  Well, architectural discussion anyway.

From the members' tee behind 14 green, my recollection was a straight hole, with a string of pearls carry bunkers at the start of the fairway, and a single bunker on the rhs just before the fairway fell to a lower level.  Regular play would not get to that lower level.  The bunkering from the members' tee is best described as 'penal', with the carry of the string of pearls and the right hand bunker offering limited strategic position.  However, any drive which got past the right hand bunker got the turbo-charge kick forward down the hill, receiving significant yardage gains.

If this tee was used for professional play, it would be a very simple hole, with all players getting down the hill to the lowe level.

In lieu, there is a tee which creates a 30 degree right dogleg and a longer tee-shot.  The string of pearls are no longer in play, and the right hand bunker suddenly is part strategic and part heroic, as it is placed on the inside of the dogleg and protects the turbo-boost downslope.  If the bunker can be carried heroically, significant yardage is gained.  If a shorter shot is played near the bunker, significant yardage is saved.  Playing away frm the bunker makes it quite a long hole with a long second.

15 is a very good hole at Muirfield, but there are a lot of good holes there, if you look.

James B

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Here's the view from the championship tee (photo taken from David Whitmer's recent photo tour):



The string of three cross-bunkers are not visible in the photo, but they should just be to the left of the fairway.

Here's a routing of the course (posted by Paul Turner in another thread), clearly showing the three cross-bunkers at the 15th:

[Mark Bourgeois]

Check out the 15th. Most obvious change is lost width. What else is new?

http://golfcoursehistories.com/HCEG.html

[Sean_A]

Mark

I continue to be very impressed with your site!  The thing which stands out the most to me about Muirfield is the seeming difference in bunker size.  I don't know if this impression is down to photographing, but the bunkers today look ~25% smaller.

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

Sean

Photos don't always tell the whole truth but in this case yes, clearly the *sand areas* have shrunk. Whether the catchment areas have shrunk is unclear.

So what happened to Colt's bunkers? Can someone post ground-level photos from the olden days?