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Cameron DeVries

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Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« on: July 12, 2013, 02:16:40 AM »
I'm taking a study trip to Wisconsin and Michigan later this month.  I'm flying out July 21st to Southern Michigan and then taking a rental car up to Wisconsin and staying in a hotel for a few days.  I only have one day in Wisconsin planned out, so that leaves two other days that I would like to fit in as much as I can as far as seeing several different courses, taking some notes, and learning some new things.  

I'm driving back to Michigan to visit my Dads family in Grand Rapids for a few days before checking out a few courses I haven't seen in Michigan.  I played two AJGA events in Northern Michigan 9 years ago so I got to see the courses at Boyne Highlands and Spring Meadows in Linden.  I've played Pilgrim's Run as well as a few courses in the Grand Rapids area too, but I know there's tons of great public golf to see.  

I'm on crutches from a lengthy and serious knee injury - I can move around alright on the crutches, but I won't be playing any golf and I won't be able to walk any exorbitantly hilly courses.  The plan is 3 days in each state and then 3 days with the family.  This trip has come together pretty fast, so I haven't had adequate time to write letters or requests to private clubs or public ones for that matter.  I have one meeting set-up that I'm basing my trip around, but I'm going to write a few emails this week and see if I can line up some other opportunities.  Maybe some underrated gems that wouldn't mind accomodating me for a visit on such short notice.  Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 02:22:17 AM by Cameron DeVries »
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their mind cannot change anything."  -George Bernard Shaw

Stephen Davis

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 02:37:03 AM »
Cameron, I don't have any real experience in Michigan, but if you are in Wisconson, I think architecturally you have got to see Lawsonia Links. I don't have any connections, but I would imagine they would be accomidating.

Mike Schott

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 08:54:48 AM »
If you are talking public golf, Forest Dunes near Roscommon is a must see. Nearby is Doak's Black Forest at Wilderness Valley. The courses at Treetops are all good, but on hilly property except the Smith Tradition. The Boyne Highlands courses are walkable for the most part. In Charlevoix there is Belvedere Country Club, well worth seeing but it may be a challenge to walk on crutches in a few spots. If you get to the east side of the state, see The Gailes course at Lakewood Shores near Oscoda. I'm a fan of Dan Pohl's Pohlcat near Mt. Pleasant. Many of the well known public and resort courses in NW Michigan are on hilly land so may not be good for you right now. If you get to Ann Arbor, the U of M course is terrific on rolling property.

PCCraig

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 09:33:22 AM »
I would certainly go check out Lawsonia. I can't imagine anyone there would mind you grabbing a cart and seeing the course. The head pro is a nice guy and I'm sure he would be accommodating.

Erin Hills is somewhat close, but being that they don't allow (I think this is still true) carts I'm not sure if that would work.

Not far from Lawsonia is North Shore, which Doak & Hepper restored a few years back and is a really neat place...a "hidden gem." It's private but a well worded e-mail or phone call to the pro explaining that you're driving through and would like to study the course might open the door to seeing it.

Around Milwaukee is Blue Mound, which is a really neat Raynor. The Head Pro is a super nice guy and again, if you explain that you're hoping to take a cart ride and study the course, he might be open to having you visit.

There is also a bunch of really good courses in Michigan to check out, especially around Traverse City and "Michiana" that get talked about quite a bit on here.

Have a great trip and report back.
H.P.S.

Will Peterson

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 10:05:09 AM »
If you are going to be in Milwaukee, try to see Milwaukee CC.  It is spectacular.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 10:10:09 AM »
Agree on Milwaukee CC, Blue Mound, and Lawsonia, in that order of priority, based on your current condition. I think if you call Milwaukee or Blue Mound and explain who you are and what you'd like to do, they'd be pretty accommodating. The worst that can happen is they say no.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Howard Riefs

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 10:23:15 AM »
Erin Hills is somewhat close, but being that they don't allow (I think this is still true) carts I'm not sure if that would work.

Agree that you should try to see Erin Hills. Pat is correct about the course not allowing carts ... let alone pull carts. One idea is to send a DM to  John Morrissett, who is on GCA and the Competitions Director at Erin Hills. He may be able to assist you.

If you're going down to SE SW (oops) Michigan, I would give a look at the Dunes Club. Great routing of nine holes on a small piece of property.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 12:19:05 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Phil McDade

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 10:28:58 AM »
Agree on Milwaukee CC, Blue Mound, and Lawsonia, in that order of priority, based on your current condition. I think if you call Milwaukee or Blue Mound and explain who you are and what you'd like to do, they'd be pretty accommodating. The worst that can happen is they say no.

Cameron:

Lawsonia is public, and certainly worth seeing -- it's probably the best-preserved and true-to-his-intentions work of Langford's that you can find. A bit hilly in parts, but they have carts.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37022.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-golf-courses-at-lawsonia-links-course-wi-usa/

Blue Mound is quite flat, save for a short stretch of holes in the latter part of the front nine and a few on the back nine. An incredibly well-done and faithfully restored Raynor, with some of the best greens in the state. A really visually appealing course, in my view.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45401.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/blue-mound-golf-country-club/

Milwaukee CC may be the single best course in the state, and a great Alison work with wonderful bunkering and a terrific routing that winds around parts the Milwaukee River. It can be hard to access; easily the most exclusive club in the state.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36505.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/milwaukee-country-club/

If that falls through, and you're in the Milwaukee area, it might be worth checking out Ozaukee CC, near Mequon in the north suburbs, for the greens alone. Another Langford and some very good holes -- the 8th and 15th greens alone are worth a trip to see.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44430.0.html

The best of the modern courses are the Kohler quartet -- Whistling Straits and the Irish Course, and the Blackwolf River and Meadow Valleys courses -- plus Erin Hills. All are pretty rugged courses, but the Kohler courses have carts. Erin Hills may not.



« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 12:04:51 PM by Phil McDade »

Andrew Lewis

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 11:20:22 AM »
A few others for consideration, both public and private:

Spring Valley (Salem, WI) -- Another Langford/Moreau that has not been touched and an interesting foil to Lawsonia.  Will take some architectural squinting to fully appreciate "what it could be" if the bunkers had sand in them and the greens were returned to their intended size.  But nevertheless, the property is interesting, the greens are generally good and in some cases great, and an old course diagram still hangs above the naugahyde furniture in the bar.

The Kingsley Club (Kingsley, MI) -- Call the club, and I'm sure they'd be happy to accommodate a tour.

The Mines (Grand Rapids, MI) -- A true municipal course by Mike DeVries.  Routed over rolling terrain with a very nice set of greens.  Most interesting perhaps is the relative lack of bunkering.

Lost Dunes (Bridgman, MI) -- To see how an old sand quarry bisected by a major highway and fraught with environmental zoning issues can become a pretty decent course.  Most people talk about the severity of the 4th green, but I recall Tom Doak himself stating that the 7th is one of the few that may have been borderline.

Bay Harbor (Bay Harbor, MI) -- To see how an old shale (I believe) quarry with amazing water views can be totally %$^&'ed up.

Dunes Club (New Buffalo MI) -- Just to both second Howard's rec, and clarify that it's in SW (not SE) Michigan very near Lost Dunes.

Battle Creek CC (Battle Creek, MI) -- I haven't seen it, but Doak listed it as one of his top 10 discoveries in a 2012 Golf Magazine article.

Arcadia Bluffs (Arcadia, MI) -- Like Whistling Straits across the lake, many on the board lambaste this course for having moved a ton of dirt during construction, manufactured quirk and being a challenging walk.  However, I have always enjoyed playing its super-undulating greens and generally firm/fast conditioning.  In any case, it's worth seeing so that you can form your own view -- and the adirondack chairs overlooking the 18th green would be a fantastic place to reflect on it and the other courses you visit.

Tullymore (Stanwood, MI) or True North (Harbor Springs, MI) -- If you either (i) love Jim Engh designs or (ii) want to understand why most people on the board do not, these are worth a look.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 11:40:43 AM »
Erin Hills from the clubhouse is more interesting than Lawsonia from a cart.  Read this excellent piece by Dan Moore and consider the short economic history of the course then ask yourself how you could miss a visit.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29760.0.html

There is no question in my mind that they will accommodate you a vehicular tour if you contact the super directly and reference some of what you can learn from the above thread.  There aren't working on donkeys out there.

Maybe if you are really lucky Mr. Moore himself would join you.  You could probably learn more over a grand slam at Denny's just going through his excellent photographic journal of the area.

Bob_Garvelink

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2013, 06:26:27 PM »
Great suggestions already mentioned but since you said your going to be near Grand Rapids 3 courses come to mind that are pretty close to one another.  Additionally they are cool towns with cool little shops and taverns.

Hawkshead - South Haven MI - Links course built by Arthur Hills

The Ravines - Saugatuck MI - Arnold Palmer course

Diamond Springs - Hamilton MI - Mike Devries Course
"Pure Michigan"

Doug Ralston

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 07:52:46 PM »
Why does everyone forget Greywalls?

Doug
Where is everybody? Where is Tommy N? Where is John K? Where is Jay F? What has happened here? Has my absence caused this chaos? I'm sorry. All my rowdy friends have settled down ......... somewhere else!

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 08:01:54 PM »
I thought I had a great idea until I read you're on crutches.

There are plenty of good golf courses to see and you've got some great guidance already. But I'd love to walk the overgrown, no longer a golf course, routing of High Pointe. Just to see if it lays as beautifully on the land now as it did when maintained as a golf course. I wonder if a course gone to seed reveals anything you can't see when your vision is guided by artful golf course presentation.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2013, 10:27:25 PM »
I thought I had a great idea until I read you're on crutches.

There are plenty of good golf courses to see and you've got some great guidance already. But I'd love to walk the overgrown, no longer a golf course, routing of High Pointe. Just to see if it lays as beautifully on the land now as it did when maintained as a golf course. I wonder if a course gone to seed reveals anything you can't see when your vision is guided by artful golf course presentation.

High Pointe would not reveal much this summer except for possibly Lyme disease, with the grass gone to seed after a very wet spring.  Especially on crutches!

Tom_Doak

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2013, 10:29:29 PM »
Lost Dunes (Bridgman, MI) -- To see how an old sand quarry bisected by a major highway and fraught with environmental zoning issues can become a pretty decent course.  Most people talk about the severity of the 4th green, but I recall Tom Doak himself stating that the 7th is one of the few that may have been borderline.

Borderline what?  The 7th is one of the best holes at Lost Dunes, and I love that green.  It's not easy (none of them are easy) but it's not nearly too severe.  The only greens I'd agree are "borderline" are the 4th and 6th and 16th.  Maybe you meant the 6th, the long par-4 that goes back into the woods?

SL_Solow

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2013, 11:22:14 PM »
A lot depends on what you want and where you are.  If you are in the Benton Harbor area, contrasting the Dunes, with Lost Dunes and then Point O Woods will give you a real look at variety in a close radius.  Different philosophies regarding conditioning as well.  If your near traverse City, I am surprised that no one has told you to get up to Frankfort and ask to see Crystal Downs one of the truly magnificent courses which is also wonderfully preserved
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 05:07:57 PM by SL_Solow »

Andy Troeger

Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2013, 11:45:19 PM »
The Dunes would not be the easiest place to get around and see without a cart. Isn't it walking-only as well? Very cool place, but not necessarily the easiest to see.

Doug--I think most folks here love Greywalls, but its probably 5-6 hours (?) from where Cameron is visiting.

Andrew Lewis

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2013, 07:34:43 AM »
Lost Dunes (Bridgman, MI) -- To see how an old sand quarry bisected by a major highway and fraught with environmental zoning issues can become a pretty decent course.  Most people talk about the severity of the 4th green, but I recall Tom Doak himself stating that the 7th is one of the few that may have been borderline.

Borderline what?  The 7th is one of the best holes at Lost Dunes, and I love that green.  It's not easy (none of them are easy) but it's not nearly too severe.  The only greens I'd agree are "borderline" are the 4th and 6th and 16th.  Maybe you meant the 6th, the long par-4 that goes back into the woods?

Hi Tom -

Mea culpa on foggy recollection of hole sequence; I did indeed mean the 6th and was recalling discussion of the severity of that green during your talk at the inaugural Mashie.

Cheers, Andrew

Doug Ralston

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2013, 10:11:57 AM »
Doug--I think most folks here love Greywalls, but its probably 5-6 hours (?) from where Cameron is visiting.

Wimps!

Greywall IS the course to study. No frills, just very insighted use of the property, minimal intrusion, and great green complexes [though I wish N Mi greens were not so bouncey]. Drive a little.

Doug
Where is everybody? Where is Tommy N? Where is John K? Where is Jay F? What has happened here? Has my absence caused this chaos? I'm sorry. All my rowdy friends have settled down ......... somewhere else!

Jud_T

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2013, 11:18:00 AM »
Don't forget to visit Founder's Brewery in Grand Rapids, one of the best in the country.   Also Mike Devries' the Mines in Grand Rapids is well worth a visit if you haven't seen it.  Since you're not playing you might want to check out Nicklaus' Harbor Shores in Benton Harbor on the way back from Lost Dunes as a litmus test if nothing else.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 11:19:36 AM by Jud T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JLahrman

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2013, 11:22:26 AM »
Don't forget to visit Founder's Brewery in Grand Rapids, one of the best in the country.

Grand Rapids Brewing Company is new but also tasty. As is Brewery Vivant. Lots of microbrewing going on in Grand Rapids these days.

Jud_T

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2013, 11:31:46 AM »
Greenbush Brewery in Sawyer is definitely worth a stop when you're down that way, for the food even more than the beer.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Cameron DeVries

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2013, 04:56:17 AM »
Thanks for all the great replies.  I am going to look into all of these suggestions in the next few days and I'll report back once I decide where I'm going.

Cameron
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their mind cannot change anything."  -George Bernard Shaw

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2013, 07:46:08 AM »


The Mines (Grand Rapids, MI) -- A true municipal course by Mike DeVries.  Routed over rolling terrain with a very nice set of greens.  Most interesting perhaps is the relative lack of bunkering.


The Mines isn't a muni. It is privately owned.

Point O Woods is a good study of RTJ's architecture of big and bold, runway tees, parkland golf. Nothing real gimmicky about it, just a course that screams RTJ. It hosted the Western Am for years and challenged many of the great we watch on TV on Sunday afternoons.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Jud_T

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Re: Courses to Study in Wisconsin & Michigan?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2013, 08:29:18 AM »
If you're going down to see Lost Dunes and the Dunes Club you may as well swing by C&C's Warren Course at Notre Dame as well.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak