Good club to be a former member of...

[David_Elvins]

Mike T,

If there is no spare hole ahead of you, there is no need to let a faster group through.  If there is space, and they are playign quicker, it is is your responsibility under the rules (etiquette) of golf to let (or at least offer to let) the faster group through.  If over the space of 4-5 holes you end up letting 3 groups through and it slows you down 2 minutes each time, so what?  If it is slowing you down more than that the, like I said, you are not doing it right.

[Pete_Pittock]

It's human nature to chase down groups in front of us just like we do cars on the highway. I'm guilty of it myself.

I can't believe we are in to another slow play thread when this group has such a poor history at every GCA event. Why can't we let this go until we get our own house in order?  Kind of like the cart issue. Amazing how many carts show up on the first tee after a night of light drinking.

John,
The King's Putter this year had every round finish in under four hours.

[Jason Thurman]

I'd be surprised if I am the only person already sick of the WWAY campaign. I also just came off another GCA event where slow/normal play was the norm.

I love GCA events and look forward to the ones I play for months. But I have to admit, it's some of the slowest golf I play all year.

I take the same dose of salt grains when a GCA'er claims they played a sub 3 hour round as I do when a 20 handicap claims they hit a 310 yard drive. I'm not saying it never happens. I'm just saying in 98% of occurrences there are unmentioned additional contributing factors (playing as a single, not putting out, inability to do math, balls hitting cart paths, 30 mph wind behind).

Still, one of the things I most enjoy about my home course is that foursomes (yep, I call them foursomes too. Subtract 50 GCA hipster points from my score) generally play in about 3 1/2 hours or less. We don't rush at all though. We just have a nice, compact routing and a membership that knows how to handle themselves on a course.

[Sam Morrow]

I have played some very slow GCA events but at Pine Dunes we moved along well, whether we like to admit it or not us golf course dorks play slowly because we spend so much time looking at the hole dissecting and then reflecting. Except for Cory.

[Mark Pearce]

(yep, I call them foursomes too. Subtract 50 GCA hipster points from my score)

Nothing to do with "GCA hipster points".  The rules of golf define a foursome and it isn't four individual golfers each hitting their own ball.

[Sean_A]

You lot aren't kidding.  GCA.com events are horribly slow.  Most of the time that is due to organizers not paying attention to who are the slow players (and putting them at the end of the stack) or to stupid formats.  I can understand the slow player mistake until guys learn who does what on the course.  But I still can't get over 2 singles matches in a 4ball - very daft and very obvious why this format isn't recognized. 

David is correct, there is only an onus to let a group through if they are waiting and there is open space.  Often, the best time is to let guys through is during a ball search.  That said, the world isn't a perfect place and if 2balls want to zoom around, they would be wise to pick their tee time with care.  These guys can complain til its dark, but it is they who are likely to be inconvenienced. 

I always thought it a good idea for the 1st tee be reserved for a spell first thing in the AM (for private clubs) for 2ball play.  That way zoomers can get up early and do their thing.   We do something like this at Burnham where 4balls are not allowed out til the afternoon (without special permission from the Sec).  It works well, though perhaps I would rather see 4balls allowed out a bit earlier, maybe by 11AM, but ya can't have everything.

Ciao 

[Craig Disher]

Are there any clubs in the US that encourage 2-ball play?

Jason - there are clubs where the majority of rounds are played in under 3 hours.

[jeffwarne]

Mike T,

If there is no spare hole ahead of you, there is no need to let a faster group through.  If there is space, and they are playign quicker, it is is your responsibility under the rules (etiquette) of golf to let (or at least offer to let) the faster group through.  If over the space of 4-5 holes you end up letting 3 groups through and it slows you down 2 minutes each time, so what?  If it is slowing you down more than that the, like I said, you are not doing it right.

David,
What if the four-ball is "doing it right", and the two-ball isn't?
Two minutes is perhaps possible, but rare, and can be completely F'd up by the groups playing through.
If I had to let 3 small groups though in a 4 hole stretch, I think I'd be suggesting to management that perhaps someone needs to find a friend or two, or that we not be allowed to play a fourball, if singles or two-balls are clearly their preferred format.

[PCCraig]

Faster groups...regardless of how many players are in the trailing group...should always be let through.

[Jason Thurman]

(yep, I call them foursomes too. Subtract 50 GCA hipster points from my score)

Nothing to do with "GCA hipster points".  The rules of golf define a foursome and it isn't four individual golfers each hitting their own ball.

The rules of golf? How many penalty strokes is a colloquial term worth?

[JMEvensky]

Faster groups...regardless of how many players are in the trailing group...should always be let through.

Spoken like a man who's never been involved in the running of a private club.Go ask your Head Pro what the result will be.

JK is 100% correct. Whether you agree or not,the majority of weekend morning play at good-sized private clubs is 4-balls.Insisting on allowing 2-somes and/or 3-somes to have right-of-way is a recipe for a jammed up golf course.

[Lou_Duran]

Faster groups...regardless of how many players are in the trailing group...should always be let through.

Really?  How about the rest of the members on the course?  Do their preferences not deserve some consideration?  I can play 18 holes in under two hours.  Should every group on a Saturday morning stand aside as I zip through their matches?

It's human nature to chase down groups in front of us just like we do cars on the highway. I'm guilty of it myself.

I can't believe we are in to another slow play thread when this group has such a poor history at every GCA event. Why can't we let this go until we get our own house in order?  Kind of like the cart issue. Amazing how many carts show up on the first tee after a night of light drinking.

A burr sticks in a very uncomfortable place when I am on a fairly busy highway, passing carefully on the left side, and being dogged by some A-hole until I finally merge right and let him by me.  Unfortunately, half of the time, that guy then slows down to my speed in that lane, trapping me behind slow traffic, or, he moves in front of me, then proceeds to slow down to the point where I have to pass him, only to begin the cycle over again.

The same oftentimes happens in golf.  A group, most often in carts, get to their drives and go through the hands on the hips, pacing, and other gyrations to make sure the guys on the green know that they want to play through.  Usually one of them hurls a terse thanks as the offending group steps aside on the next tee and invites the speedsters through.  And then, they slow down so that the offended become the offenders.  Human nature?  Welcome to this world.  A lot to be said for belonging to a club of similarly-minded individuals who are relatively few in number and not easily bothered.

[PCCraig]

Faster groups...regardless of how many players are in the trailing group...should always be let through.

Really?  How about the rest of the members on the course?  Do their preferences not deserve some consideration?  I can play 18 holes in under two hours.  Should every group on a Saturday morning stand aside as I zip through their matches?

Really.

[Jason Thurman]

Are there any clubs in the US that encourage 2-ball play?

[Andrew Buck]

There is a lot going on in this thread, but it seems to me the situation should dictate the action.

If a 4-ball falls out of position, then it should be customary to let the group behind play through, regardless of number of players.  There should also be some level of commitment from a club to eliminate slow play.

That said, if a club is dominated by 4-ball matches at a given time, and they are all keeping pace, it is not enjoyable, IMO for either party to have a 2-ball play through a steady stream of 4-ball groups.  I enjoy playing in 4-ball games, I'd like to play in them often.  However, with 2 young sons and limited time, it's not always possible.  At my club, I know the times when larger groups of 4-ball's generally play, and understand that I can't expect to whip around the course alone or in a 2-ball, during those time.


I feel like if I want to play at a time when the course is crowded, I should expect to play at the pace of the club, as long as there aren't groups out of position.  Thankfully, most play in 3.5 hours at our club, but that still would be tediously slow as a 2-ball, especially if using a cart.

[scott_wood]

Mt Lake allows 2 balls only, from 8-9 Monday through Friday...works GREAT!...
First foursome is at 9, always.....
Sunday is a shotgun tournament @ 8:30 .....
Most foursomes play in 3 1/2  to 3:45.....leisurely..
And that is with a stop @ Marion's Stand on 11.....

ML is not a "good club to be a former member of".....it is a very good Club, and course......

[Carl Johnson]

What do you do when you step aside and let the two through, and as soon as you do, you look back and there's another two ball standing there waiting?

Bill,

I wouldn't step aside whilst letting them play through.  If a group of two is playing at a good pace behind a slower group of four, they should arrive on a par 4 tee whilst the group ahead is approx 100-150yds down the fairway.  If the group ahead walks in the rough, they should not need to wait whilst the twosome hits their drives.  After the twosome hits their drives, the group of four arrives at their balls and hits to the green.  Then the group of two arrives at their balls and hits their shots to the green.  All 6 walk to the green and the twosomeputts out first whilst the others tend the flag, fix their ball marks etc.  Then they are off tothe next tee to tee off whilst the group of 4 putts out.  

I cannot imagine the group of 4 being slowed by more than a few minutes, sometimes not at all.

This describes almost exactly the "playing through" my four ball allowed of a two-ball today at our club.  For what it's worth, the etiquette at our club is that the faster group should be allowed to play through, regardless of the relative number of players in the group.  Makes the most sense to me.

[A.G._Crockett]

There is a lot going on in this thread, but it seems to me the situation should dictate the action.

If a 4-ball falls out of position, then it should be customary to let the group behind play through, regardless of number of players.  There should also be some level of commitment from a club to eliminate slow play.

That said, if a club is dominated by 4-ball matches at a given time, and they are all keeping pace, it is not enjoyable, IMO for either party to have a 2-ball play through a steady stream of 4-ball groups.  I enjoy playing in 4-ball games, I'd like to play in them often.  However, with 2 young sons and limited time, it's not always possible.  At my club, I know the times when larger groups of 4-ball's generally play, and understand that I can't expect to whip around the course alone or in a 2-ball, during those time.


I feel like if I want to play at a time when the course is crowded, I should expect to play at the pace of the club, as long as there aren't groups out of position.  Thankfully, most play in 3.5 hours at our club, but that still would be tediously slow as a 2-ball, especially if using a cart.

There IS a lot going on in this thread, which I never saw coming.  I posted this assuming that all others here would find it as funny and wrongheaded as I do; so much for assuming!

The responses do, however, support my feeling that this is perhaps THE most argumentative group of individuals ever "assembled".  If this group tried to enact legislation, it would make the US Senate seem measured and rational by comparison.

[Patrick_Mucci]

AG,

And I haven't even posted 

[Mac Plumart]

I'm no expert, but I've always had the mindset that when I play as a single on a weekend I'll been in for a slow round full of waiting.  That is part of the deal.  Weekends are the time when most people play...most of the time, it is four-balls.  If I want to play as a single, I don't believe I have the right to barge through all the other groups. 

I am a member of a few clubs that handle these types of situations differently, however.

One is a course that is never crowded and play is light.  Their rule is that as soon as a group makes contact with your group, you must let them play through.  Since this is the rule and everyone understands it, the transitions time are smooth and friendly.  Since the play on the course is always light...it is no big deal.

Another course gets a lot of weekend play.  Their rule is that if you fall behind the group in front of you by a full hole and you are holding up the groups behind...you must skip forward and catch up.  No letting people through...as this usually only alleviates that slow round for the people you just let through, but keeps the course behind you clogged up.  If you skip forward, then all the groups behind you get sped up.  Also, this club posts all weekend rounds in the clubhouse with the time it took for each group to play.  If you don't play is LESS than four hours, you can not tee off in the mornings on weekends.

Both systems seem to work.  But like I said, I'm no expert.  Just passing along what I've seen take place.

[Sam Morrow]

I was playing as a twosome with Mike Hendren when another twosome came up on us on the 16th tee where we had been waiting for the green to clear. I asked if they wanted to join us for the remaining three holes and they said "No, we would prefer to play through".  Hilarity ensued and they decided just to end their golf day there and drive in. I made them an offer they had no choice but to refuse. I will never understand the fear some people have with joining up.

[/i]

John...in this instance, I'm not so sure these guys wouldn't have joined up with another group of two.  It is just the fact that YOU were part of the other group!  In all seriousness, if you could avoid it...would you play golf with yourself?

 

Those guys missed out, Kav and Bogey, that would have been life changing.

[Cory Lewis]

Also, this club posts all weekend rounds in the clubhouse with the time it took for each group to play.  If you don't play is LESS than four hours, you can not tee off in the mornings on weekends.

That is GENIUS!  I wish I could get one of the private clubs I worked at to do that.  That would have solved lots of problems.  Kudos to your club for implementing that policy!

[John Kavanaugh]

It is pretty simple to find a club culture that you like and conform.  The people who want to play 25% quicker are just as much an outlier as those who play 25% slower. I think anyone who plays in under 3 hours should not be allowed to tee off after 9 am.

[John Kavanaugh]

It is not a coincidence that the rake and runners who post score after score while not trying end up winning every member guest where the rounds average 6 hours each.

[Jeff Goldman]

Seems to be as good a place as any to share a hilarious and surreal pace of play story.  Couple weeks ago I was at Prairie Dunes with some friends from Olympia Fields and we were joined on Sunday by a CGA-er to be named Stettner.  We go off 7:55, with nobody in front, and are fairly quick players, though 3 were walking and carrying.  So as we are on the 2nd green I notice a group coming down one.  By the 4th green they are pressing us pretty good, and though we were moving, they stay right behind us.  A group of ladies in carts.  Decent, not great golfers (our group is alll less than 5 hdcp except me, and one made it to the quarters of the mid-am a few years ago).  Every few shots we would look back, and it's like we're Butch Cassidy saying "who are those guys (ladies)?" as they chase us all over the course. 

They catch us as we tee off on 9 and they drive up to 8 green. So I ask them if they want to pass, and they say "heck no, you guys are really speedy!."  I return the compliment, and we go on our way.  We finish the front dead on 9:30.  Back 9, same deal.  We get a little ahead when one of them hits into the gunch, they catch up when one of us hits into the gunch.  I don't think they ever had to wait for a shot, but they never let go of us either.  We finish 11:05, in 3:10, really, really fast on that course in the wind and heat.  They were right behind.  One of the folks from Olympia is the chairman of the membership committee, he wanted to offer them free memberships on the spot, provided they agreed to teach the members how to play. Surreal.  Ask Stettner.