Has GCA.com started, expedited and/or reinforced a trend in

[Patrick_Mucci]

golf course alterations ?

At more and more clubs I see and hear about renovations,............... previous, current and future.

Almost all of the alterations have to do with tree removal, width and restoration of lost features.

I won't say that it's reached epidemic proportions, but, it seems to be more and more common.

Could it be that GCA.com has had a greater influence than perceived, especially amongst lurkers ?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Nope, it's just a discussion board. Main influence are architects, who also come on here and influence opinions. We just echo their opinions - we're rank amateurs and rightly or wrongly we are susceptible to the opinions of paid experts. That may be one reason it sometimes appears we are influencing something or the other when we are really just an echo chamber.

Secondary influence probably is the increased availability of old aerials.

[Garland Bayley]

Bill Clinton says it's the economy stupid! Architects aren't building new and are looking for work.

[Mac Plumart]

we're rank amateurs

Mark, you are wrong on this point...my good friend.  There are lots of experts and professionals on this site.  Of course, there are some rank amateurs...but there are some legit pros on the site.

[Bill Brightly]

With respect to tree removal, there probably is a somewhat equal split between architects advice and superintendents/USGA green section agronomists recommending tree removal. It is clearly better for the turf, the trees are rarely missed, and the tree-huggers lose the battle almost every time.

I don't think GCA.com started the restoration trend, but the site definitely has reinforced it. Speaking from experience, you only need a handful of well-prepared influential leaders of a club to get the ball rolling. GCA.com is an important resource for anyone doing research on their ODG course. Understanding the importance of width and angles is an acquired taste, it is counterintuitive to many US parkland golfers. It is a long, slow process to win over a significant portion of a membership, but really rewarding when more and more members start to get it.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mac, yes, what I meant to write was that it's more likely the pros on this board bring perspective gained offline to here rather than the other way around. But I suppose it's not all one way.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Nope, it's just a discussion board. Main influence are architects,

Disagree completely.

Architects don't randomly enter the driveways of golf clubs, they're invited in because the members have a mission.

who also come on here and influence opinions.

It's true that architects come on this site and influence opinions.
But, I know of instances where the reverse was true.

We just echo their opinions -

Speak for yourself.
There are plenty of participants who maintain and espouse their own opinions, independent of what others may think

we're rank amateurs and rightly or wrongly we are susceptible to the opinions of paid experts.

I view it differently.
It's true that many are amateurs, but, those amateurs are the Green Chairmen and Presidents who hire the architects, and they don't hire the architects, absent a purpose.
The architect is the professional retained to fulfill the mostly preconceived mission of the club.

That may be one reason it sometimes appears we are influencing something or the other when we are really just an echo chamber.

Couldn't disagree more, parrots we're not.

Secondary influence probably is the increased availability of old aerials.

The old aerials are only available because of the DEMAND

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat,

I don't know how much influence GCA has, but can tell you that when I visited two well known US Open sites I was requested not to write anything about the course on GolfClubAtlas.

Both visits were about ten years ago when serious work was underway at each club.

If GCA wasn't influential, I don't know why officials at these clubs would be so sensitive about me saying anything here.

At least one well placed person told me nobody wants to admit it but very many people in the golf industry regularly check in at GCA even though not that many actually post here.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,

That's interesting.

I've heard of similar stories from other individuals

[Steve Lapper]

Absolutely!

For many reasons I'll avoid the specifics, but GCA.com has played a major role in influencing and renewing golf course restorative efforts around this country and likely the world. Unquestionably, it's the Internet's single largest contributing factor in this area.

[Phil McDade]

Mark:

I'd also argue that several very good renovation works that I've seen and played -- that included eliminating hundreds of trees, broadening playing corridors, and restoring features neglected or otherwise undermined by years of benign neglect or overt and misguided tweaks -- were initiated by members who knew what their club had, and wanted it improved and restored. Sometimes that meant bringing in a noted architect or golf architect writer to talk to the club about the values of renovation, and that might have been the spark that captures the imagination of the broader membership.

Oakmont is a pretty good example of a member-driven renovation that by most accounts has notably improved one of the true treasures in golf.

[Jordan Wall]

Pat,

I definitely think GCA has some influence in this.  With our fortune of having some of the best golf architects in the world on this website, it would seem inevitable that the discussions here would have a least some impact on the amount of restorations in recent years.

That being said, I think another big reason for restorations is because less and less golf courses are being built.  This could be attributed to a lack of land for which to build (which probably isn't the case as I know there's a bunch out there, just not as much as in previous years, especially with environmental regulations getting stricter), or probably more so to the fact that the number of golfers in the country doesn't seem to be increasing, hence why build a lot more golf courses when the market isn't getting any bigger.  That being said, with less golf courses being built every year, this perhaps has changed the focus from building as many new courses as possible to making the courses we already have that much better.  Thus, the increase in renovations.

Ultimately, I think there are several factors relating to this trend, with GCA indeed being one of them. 

I think it would be difficult, however, to find legitimate evidence linking the many recent restorations directly to GCA.  How could you measure that effect?

The question above would actually be fun to explore, as though we are a very small part of the overall golfing community, we are at the same time are a very well respected group of that community.

[John Kavanaugh]

The site as a whole is stronger than the individual members. I hear the exact same opinions from all my friends who have never visited or heard of GCA.  Everyone loves healthy firm turf and everyone knows that shade is a detriment.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat: I think this thread has to be connected to your recent thread on minimalism.  Perhaps it is a cycle but architecture is coming around to the more realistic view that you don't have to create a great course and you can certainly make a course better by eliminating much that was previously done.  Minimalism goes beyond moving a minimal amount of dirt - it recognizes that great courses breathe and don't have to have narrow corridors separately each hole.  Get rid of those trees that were planted by greens committees in the 1960s and you see the natural beauty of the land and the wonderful playing surfaces which are far more easy to maintain. There are of course exceptions but the restorations are returning courses to the greatness by letting the player see the course and enjoy all of it and not some silly little speck.

[Ally Mcintosh]

At least one well placed person told me nobody wants to admit it but very many people in the golf industry regularly check in at GCA even though not that many actually post here.

This is most definitely true.

[A.G._Crockett]

I think it is possible.  I don't know which of the three verbs in the thread title I'd pick; maybe "expedited"?

The golf course industry strikes me as a pretty small community in which trends happen more or less across the board.  There aren't that many places where ideas about this stuff are so freely and constantly exchanged, are there?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Oh uh, GMBF hisself has added his own ink to the "who started" question:

12. Restorations gained great momentum in the USA in the 1990s and that wave has continued ever since.

[Jordan Wall]

Pat,

Still curious as to how much you believe GCA has had an impact on this and what you believe the main reasons for the trend are.

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