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Jeff_Brauer

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Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« on: July 06, 2013, 10:43:23 PM »
Bought a book on famous architecture quotes, and know that only Geoff S has a compilation regarding golf architecture quotes.

Just for fun, what, if any, are your favorite quotes regarding golf architecture, preferably by the architects themselves, but also by others.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Paul Carey

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 10:50:02 PM »
I am not sure i always agree but I love this line when I hear whining about a bunker.  Donald Ross:  "There is no such thing as a misplaced bunker. Regardless of where a bunker may be, it is the business of the player to avoid it."

Two others by Steve Smyers at dinner one night as another guy was whining about  a couple of holes at Four Streams.

On the subject of a deep bunker: "It's a hazard it's not supposed to be easy to play from"

On the subject of a long  tough par four (4 1/2 as is often said here) as to whether it should be redone "it's a golf hole....just go play it"



« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 10:55:13 PM by Paul Carey »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 11:29:13 PM »
Jeff - not a quote but a paragraph, not by an architect but by a writer, but please indulge me as this golf writer is the best ever by far (IMO) and the paragraph describes perfectly -- more charmingly, more insightfully than anything I've read before or since -- the seemingly eternal struggle in golf and gca. Bernard Darwin:

The Voice of the Rabbits - Considering the Complaints that Courses are Too Long

"The voice of the rabbit is heard in the land once more. He does not resemble the cuckoo. In June he does not change his tune. His mournful song is ever the same. The holes, he says, are too long and so are the carries; the courses are laid out by tigers for
tigers. He has been recently saying it again in a number of letters to the press....Personally I have a great deal of sympathy
with these rabbits. As one who is sloping slowly, or perhaps not very slowly, towards their condition I agree that courses and holes are often made wearifully long. Because I sympathize with them I do not wish to emphasize too strongly the fact that some of their premises are doubtful and weak.  They imply that it is only the good players who are the long drivers, but in fact there has arisen today a whole generation of golfers, all of whom can hit the ball a long way, yet many of whom are far from being good players.... They seem also to imply, in their demands that  skill and accuracy should be rewarded, that these attributes go with short driving, but this is not so; the majority of short drivers have little skill, and their accuracy consists largely in being so short as to be unable to reach the rough. When all is said, however, I agree that many courses, at any rate when they are at full stretch, are not calculated to give anything like the maximum of pleasure to anything like the majority of golfers. If this be so, where does the remedy lie? Surely in the hands of the rabbits... [But] In the first place they are lazy in organizing revolt, and in the second a great many of them from motives, whether noble or ignoble, like to think that their course has a reputation for being long and hard, especially longer and harder than those of their immediate neighbors. However that may be, until they do organize revolt it is perhaps not unfair to suggest that they deserve to remain slaves.  It is my private impression that a soviet of red rabbits would lay out a bad course, so bad that they would either share the fate of most revolutionaries and be quickly turned out, or else would be compelled to get a few mild scratch players of democratic tendencies to come and strengthen them. The sort of person who would lay them out a far better course than they would make for themselves would be a rather passé tiger brought up in the traditions of the elder Scottish courses."

Peter

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 01:38:26 AM »
@geoffshacquotes on twitter always puts up some good ones. He put one up on the 4th that's one of my favorites:

Quote
A golf hole, humanly speaking, is like life, in as much as one cannot judge justly of any person’s character the first time one meets him. Sometimes it takes years to discover and appreciate hidden qualities which only time discloses, and he usually discloses them on the links.
C.B. MACDONALD
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 04:50:47 AM »
Jeff, on an Australian forum, we have a thread entitled "Great Golf Architecture Quotes".

It wanders around (an inordinate amount at times) but there's over 1350 contributions to the thread, with some brilliant quotes in there. Old and new, names familiar and foreign. I've added the words of many GCAers in there periodically, and lifted Geoff Shack's quotes for the thread on many occasions.

Take a look - http://www.thegolfforum.com/index.php?/topic/1984-great-golf-architecture-quotes/page-1

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Lyne Morrison

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 09:11:12 AM »

Well, there are so many and CB's quote above is a beauty.
Given that I have committed to assisting women and seniors in their enjoyment of the course and the game, I shall offer these words of wisdom from the esteemed George Thomas:

".. It is of paramount importance that the tee shots be properly arranged..."

"Where possible, there should be a line of play for every length of golfer, a safe zone for which he (or she) might try for and expect to reach by his (or her) average good shot..."

Cheers, Lyne

Lyne Morrison

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 09:19:49 AM »

Peter,
Cheers to Bernard Darwin!
Such an insightful fellow.
Recommended reading I say.
Lyne

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »
Criticizing a man's course is like going into his family. - CB Macdonald
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 09:48:47 AM »
“The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball”
Max Behr
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 09:56:27 AM »
"You can drink a man's liquor or have sex with his wife but don't ever criticize a man's golf course."

Eric Smith

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2013, 10:25:39 AM »
Variety is not only the "spice of life" but it is the very foundation of golfing architecture. Diversity in nature is universal. Let your golfing architecture mirror it. An ideal or classical golf course demands variety, personality, and, above all, the charm of romance. - CB Macdonald

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2013, 10:29:26 AM »
Matthew, thanks for that link.

Peter, Pete Dye once summed up the gist of the long quote when playing golf with me in Scotland.....he said "You looked like you're shooting 70 but shot 90, and I looked like I'm shooting 90, but I shot 70.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter Pallotta

Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2013, 10:57:25 AM »
Peter, Pete Dye once summed up the gist of the long quote when playing golf with me in Scotland.....he said "You looked like you're shooting 70 but shot 90, and I looked like I'm shooting 90, but I shot 70.

Ha! Excellent, thanks Jeff.

A couple of passe tigers, you two  :)

Morgan Stephenson

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2013, 12:20:19 PM »
Here are a couple from Mike Strantz.

" I don't care if people think my courses are too hard. "

And this was in reply to someone critical of some waste areas and hazards at TR.

" ...but look at all the air I left you above them. "

Easier said than done sometimes😊

Mac Plumart

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2013, 09:18:12 AM »
Although unspoken, the idea of Augusta remains among the strongest inspirations for our work: finding and playing one’s ball from nearly anywhere, contour rather than hazards the primary driver of strategy, and abundant short grass from which to craft creative shots for recovery play.

Eric Iverson
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Matthew Runde

Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 07:40:45 PM »
One sentence from Alister MacKenzie's Spirit of St. Andrews sticks in my mind:

It is characteristic of the modern architect that he always leaves a broad and pleasurable road that leads to destruction, that is sixes and sevens on the card of the long handicap player but a straight and narrow path which leads to salvation in the form of threes and fours for the "scratch man."

AJ_Foote

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 02:17:10 AM »
The shot of the Alps hole at Prestwick on the home page reminded me of one of my favourite quotes/moments, which happened on that very green.

We had a dour young caddy named Thomas on board. He wasn't caddying per se - just a mix of fore-caddying and reading putts.

We couldn't crack him for a smile all day, but he read every putt perfectly.

On the 17th, one of our buddies had a 15 footer and just couldn't get his head around Thomas's read.

He checked it from every angle, scratched his head, squinted and eventually looked at Thomas and said "It looks right to left to me. Are you sure it goes left to right?"

Without blinking Thomas shot back: "Well it has done for the last 150 years."

Andrew

David_Elvins

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 02:24:44 AM »
"The ideal land for golf is flatter than it is assumed to be." - me.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 06:41:56 AM »
Jeff, on an Australian forum, we have a thread entitled "Great Golf Architecture Quotes".

It wanders around (an inordinate amount at times) but there's over 1350 contributions to the thread, with some brilliant quotes in there. Old and new, names familiar and foreign. I've added the words of many GCAers in there periodically, and lifted Geoff Shack's quotes for the thread on many occasions.

Take a look - http://www.thegolfforum.com/index.php?/topic/1984-great-golf-architecture-quotes/page-1

MM

Can't seem to access this link... Gives me an error message... Would like to take a nose around though if I can

Sean_A

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 07:09:54 AM »
I like "It's impossible."

At Brancaster's home hole in a medal competition, Mr Humphrey found himself left with a five footer. A protracted pause for study was followed by his pocketing the ball with the candid comment "It’s impossible."

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

MMcCollins

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 08:37:52 AM »
Mike Davis(?) on the setup of Bethpage Black at the '02 US Open, "where does it say in the rules of golf that a par 4 must be reached in 2 shots?, where #12 was the first of the 500 yard par 4s

Nick Faldo to a marshall at that same event, "I didnt realize you guys were cutting the fairways this narrow", after his drive landed on the caddie stripe of #10 and didnt make it to the fairway.

Jeffrey Prest

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 09:01:22 AM »
"Gentlemen, I think the hole is eminently fair."

Whatever your views of RTJ, that line to the members after he aced the supposedly 'too-hard' 4th at Baltusrol is surely the coolest moment in golf architecture history...

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2013, 09:10:30 AM »
Sean,

I wonder if any Maine or NE based caddie ever told a golfer he "couldn't get there from here?

I don't have the quote in front of me, but my personal fave is Colt writing that "in no case, shall a putt run away from the putter like a swine possessed by the devil."

That said, the book I was reading had several inspiration type quotes more or less trumpeting the role of architecture in making society better.   Is there anything along those lines out there in the history of gca?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom_Doak

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2013, 05:29:59 PM »
Sean,

I wonder if any Maine or NE based caddie ever told a golfer he "couldn't get there from here?

I don't have the quote in front of me, but my personal fave is Colt writing that "in no case, shall a putt run away from the putter like a swine possessed by the devil."

That said, the book I was reading had several inspiration type quotes more or less trumpeting the role of architecture in making society better.   Is there anything along those lines out there in the history of gca?

Jeff:

Did you not read the last chapter of MacKenzie's book?  There are some pearls in there:

"The only reason for the existence of golf and other games is that they promote the health, pleasure and even the prosperity of the community."

"A good golf course is a great asset to a nation.
     Those who harangue against land being diverted from agriculture and used for golf have little sense of proportion.  Comparing the small amount of land utilized for golf and other playing fields with the large amount devoted to agriculture, we get infinitely more value out of the former than the latter.  We all eat too much.
     During the Great WAr, in Britain, the majority were all the better for being rationed and getting a smaller amount of food, but none of us get enough fresh air, pleasurable excitement and exercise.
     Health and happiness are everything in this world.  Money grubbing, so-called business, except insofar as it helps to attain this, is of minor importance.
     One of the reasons why I, a medical man, decided to give up medicine and take to golf architecture was my firm conviction of the extraordinary influence on health of pleasurable excitement, especially when combined with fresh air and exercise."

Also,

"Today one can almost gauge the intelligence and prosperity of a community by the extent golf and golf courses are booming.  In America there is a tremendous boom in golf; in Russia there is none."
     With the exception of ignorant politicians who, with a few notable exceptions, appear to desire to tax golf courses and playing fields out of existence, most people know that golf and other games promote the health and happiness of the community, but there are few who realize the extent to which it promotes the prosperity of the world.
     Some years ago I was designing a golf course on the East coast of England which was financed by an old man and one who did not play golf.  I was curious to know why he, a non-golfer, should finance the club, so one day I asked him.
     He said, "During the war twelve of my clerks started to play golf.  They became so much more mentally alert and so much more useful to me that I concluded golf was a great asset in promoting the prosperity of the community, and I decided to promote it to the fullest extent in my power."


I can only imagine the reaction if I repeated that story at a permit hearing, though.  ;)

As to my favorite quote on architecture, it was the one Pete Dye said to me off-handedly, years ago, about designing a course for the pros, which I printed in The Anatomy of a Golf Course:

"If you get those dudes thinking, they're in trouble."

Andrew Buck

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Re: Favorite Golf Architecture Quotes?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2013, 05:59:47 PM »

"A good golf course is a great asset to a nation.
     Those who harangue against land being diverted from agriculture and used for golf have little sense of proportion.  Comparing the small amount of land utilized for golf and other playing fields with the large amount devoted to agriculture, we get infinitely more value out of the former than the latter.  We all eat too much.
     During the Great WAr, in Britain, the majority were all the better for being rationed and getting a smaller amount of food, but none of us get enough fresh air, pleasurable excitement and exercise.
     Health and happiness are everything in this world.  Money grubbing, so-called business, except insofar as it helps to attain this, is of minor importance.
     One of the reasons why I, a medical man, decided to give up medicine and take to golf architecture was my firm conviction of the extraordinary influence on health of pleasurable excitement, especially when combined with fresh air and exercise."

Thanks for sharing this quote, it is great.