[PCCraig]

Please see the below rough outline of a real golf hole (to scale, but the green is roughly an oval). The hole featured is approximately 280 yards and played as a par-4. The hole plays ~30 feet down hill for the first 175 yards, before climbing back up sharply at roughly 200 yards off the tee where a small plateau short of the green sits. At the point where the fairway begins to rise again toward the green, the left side of the fairway forms a sharp ridge that is roughly 10-15 feet tall and hugs the left side of the green hard. The right side of the green falls roughly 5-7ft below the putting surface. The green has a false front, generally breaks back to front but the back quarter of the green is flat.

Assume you are bunkering this existing golf hole. You are allowed 4 bunkers, maximum. Where do you place those 4 bunkers (or less) on the hole to maximize the strategic nature of the hole?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Without knowing anything about winds or the green's elevation relative to the tee, small bunker back of the green and that's it. Maybe not even that.

[PCCraig]

Without knowing anything about winds or the green's elevation relative to the tee, small bunker back of the green and that's it. Maybe not even that.

The prevailing wind is generally into the players face, or a little left to right.

The green is at roughly the same elevation as the tee...maybe a little lower.

[Matthew Essig]

As Mark said, bunker behind the green.

I am considering A very deep/penal bunker right of the green, too

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

How wide, generally, is the fairway here?

[PCCraig]

Pat:

How wide, generally, is the fairway here?

Perhaps 30-40 paces wide at the bottom of the fairway, 20 paces or so at the top of the hill, and 5 or 6 at the mouth of the green. While the hole falls off a ridge on the left side, the right side of the fairway/rough is much flatter until you get greenside. You're able to recover from the right far easier than from the left.

[Brian Finn]

I would not put any bunkers on the hole, based on the info provided. 

the progressively narrowing fairway, falloffs in all directions, plateau and false front combine to adequately defend (what appears to be a pretty small target) against those attempting to drive the green.

anyone willing to play conservatively to the wider portion of the fairway leaves a sharply uphill wedge shot, which combined with defenses already mentioned also seems like enough. 

[Josh Tarble]

I might go one big bunker left of fairway about 250 to 260 yards from the tee - hopefully the bunker would partially obscure the green from the tee.   

[Sean_A]

Jeepers, from the description, I was thinking of a way to make going for the green more of a temptation.  Maybe a saving bunker on the left.  Hard to know though.

Ciao

[Josh Tarble]

Jeepers, from the description, I was thinking of a way to make going for the green more of a temptation.  Maybe a saving bunker on the left.  Hard to know though.

Ciao

At 280 and no bunkers, I think I would have a go at it every time.  IMO, it doesn't sound like anything that is outrageously penal to stop most decent hitters from doing so.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jeepers, from the description, I was thinking of a way to make going for the green more of a temptation.  Maybe a saving bunker on the left.  Hard to know though.

Ciao

We are looking for the same thing. My thinking is bunker free tee to green to encourage the long hitters to have a go. Bunker in the back to plant the "but not too far" idea in their heads and plant the seed of thoughtful indecision. The slopes L, R, and F of the green should create enough interest and challenge on their own. Mow F and R short but on the L grow the grass just long enough for balls to get hung up and create awkward stances.

You want everything short of the green and even around the green (other than bunker) to look easy in order to entice. The ground movement should create enough challenge in the form of off-kilter stances to keep the interest of the shorter hitters and layup-ers.

[Ronald Montesano]

I love top shot bunkers, stuck a little pot bunker front right of the green, and a coffin bunker for the gal who turns her drive a bit too much right to left. That's my four, gentlemen.

[Matthew Sander]

My thinking is bunker free tee to green to encourage the long hitters to have a go. Bunker in the back to plant the "but not too far" idea in their heads and plant the seed of thoughtful indecision.

Mark,

It is only my opinion, but typically greenside bunkers don't influence my decision when deciding whether or not to have a go at a green from the tee. Now, if the bunker is particularly nasty or penal, then that is a different story.

Although since this is a private club, and members will be playing the hole quite often, if they find themselves in that bunker and the resulting recovery is exceedingly awkward, then the bunker will have done its job and presumably affect their decision making in the future. I guess that is why really good golf holes, and drivable/short par 4s in particular, get better with many plays.

[Greg Tallman]

None

[Michael Essig]

What is the penalty for going for the green?  IMO, the good driveable holes make a bogey very possible by failing to hit the target.  Very often, the defense is a severely raised green or water.  Both of those elements are not present here.

So, what is the defense provided by the green - severely contoured, crowned so that it repels both the tee shot itself or any greenside recovery, false front flowing into a gathering bunker below the green on left side, etc? In other words, I don't think you can resolve the bunker issue unless you additionally consider the green's defenses. 

[Jason Topp]

Thought I would bring this back up as this is a hole I played before and after the current fairway bunkers were put in place.  It is an interesting hole because you can hit a 7 iron to the bottom of the hill and then have 115 up the hill to the green.

Such an approach is unsatisfying and you can hit a 200 yard shot to the next level and leave yourself 60-80 yards.  It used to be a pretty easy play but they added a bunch of bunkers on the right side at that level.

Trying to drive the green requires a pretty big hook precisely hit between bunkers and a cliff along the right. 

I think the current bunkering improves the hole because you probably should just  hit it to the bottom of the hill but do not want to do so. 

Nonetheless a centerline bunker arrangement at the middle level might have been a better solution.  Perhaps one between the bottom and the 2nd level that could be carried by most people but would make the play to the middle level more exciting.

[Thomas Dai]

Nice puzzle PC, well done for posting.

I'd be in favour of going with no sand bunkers at all.

I'd have no rough or collars within about 10 yrds of either side of the green and stretching back down the fairway about 50 yds from the greens centre. This whole area would have the grass cut nice and tight. I'd leave the grass a bit longer over the back of the green, where I'd have a grass hollow about 3 ft deep. I'd also have a grass hollow, but more like head high in depth along the left side of the green but the grass within it would be cut tight enough that you could either lob it or chip it or even putt up and out of hollow onto the green.

Big boys could go for the green if they wish even bouncing the ball down the slope from the left side through the hollow if the ball has sufficient speed. Being a members club shorter hitting men and ladies and young juniors could run the ball onto the green if they choose the right line and execute the shot properly, otherwise, like a big boy who goes for the green but misses it, let's see what their short game is like.

All the best.

[Mark McKeever]

The arrows lead me to believe this hole is very similar to the 8th (cape) hole at Yale.

Mark

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