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Jim McCann

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The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« on: July 01, 2013, 05:48:38 AM »
Ron Fream sent me an email recently regarding some research he had conducted on "the oldest golf courses outside the United Kingdom".

With his permission, I have reproduced below a list of what he considers to be the oldest fifteen.

Ron accepts that this may not be a definitive list and would be delighted to have it corrected if need be via the gca site.

1   Royal Calcutta Golf Club, Kolkata, India in 1829.    Attained its Royal designation in 1911 from King George.

2   Pau Golf Club, Billere, Aquitaine, France in 1856.

3   Manchester Club, Mandeville, Manchester, Jamaica in 1865. The oldest course in the western hemisphere.

4   Otago Golf Club - originally Dunedin Golf Course - Balmacewen course, Dunedin, South Island, New Zealand in 1871.
                  The first course in the southern hemisphere.

5   Jakarta Golf Club, (Batavia Golf Club), Rawamangun - Jakarta, Indonesia in 1872.

6   Christchurch Golf Club, (Shirly Links), Christchurch, South Island, New Zealand in April 1873.

7   The Royal Montreal Golf Club, LleBizard, Quebec, Canada in November 1873.  
   The oldest course in North America, achieving its Royal designation from Queen Victoria eleven years after formation.

8   Le Club de Golf Royal Quebec, Boischatel, Quebec, Canada in 1874. Its Royal designation came in 1934.

9   Jorhat Gymkhana Club, Jorhat, Assam, India in early 1876.

10   Bangalore Golf Club, Bangalore, India in late 1876.

11   Toronto Golf Club, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada in 1876.

12   Madras Gymkhana Club, (Guindy Golf location), Chennai, India. Golf play started in 1877, club founded 1884.

13   Shillong Golf Club, Shillong, Maghalaya, India in 1878.

14   Royal Colombo Golf Club, Colombo, Sri Lanka in 1879. The Royal designation came from King George V, 1928.

15   Royal Perak Golf Club, Ipoh, Perak, Malaysia (originally Ipoh Golf Club) in 1879. Its Royal prefix was granted in 1932.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 08:56:09 AM by Jim McCann »
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 05:49:58 AM »
The Royal Calcutta club dates from 1829, but the course does not - I believe it is not on its original site.
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Adam Lawrence

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Rich Goodale

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 08:05:16 AM »
Quote from: Jim McCann on July 01, 2013, 05:48:38 AM
Ron Fream sent me an email recently regarding some research he had conducted on "the oldest golf courses outside the United Kingdom".

With his permission, I have reproduced below a list of what he considers to be the oldest fifteen.

Ron accepts that this may not be a definitive list and would be delighted to have it corrected if need be via the gca site.

1   Royal Calcutta Golf Club, Kolkata, India in 1829.    Attained its Royal designation in 1911 from King George.

2   Pau Golf Club, Billere, Aquitaine, France in 1856.

3   Manchester Club, Mandeville, Manchester, Jamaica in 1865. The oldest course in the western hemisphere.

4   Otago Golf Club - originally Dunedin Golf Course - Balmacewen course, Dunedin, South Island, New Zealand in 1871.
                  The first course in the southern hemisphere.

5   Jakarta Golf Club, (Batavia Golf Club), Rawamangun - Jakarta, Indonesia in 1872.

6   Christchurch Golf Club, (Shirly Links), Christchurch, South Island, New Zealand in April 1873.

7   The Royal Montreal Golf Club, LleBizard, Quebec, Canada in November 1873. 
   The oldest course in North America, achieving its Royal designation from Queen Victoria eleven years after formation.

8   Le Club de Golf Royal Quebec, Boischatel, Quebec, Canada in 1874. Its Royal designation came in 1934.

9   Jorhat Gymkhana Club, Jorhat, Assam, India in early 1876.

10   Bangalore Golf Club, Bangalore, India in late 1876.

11   Toronto Golf Club, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada in 1876.

12   Madras Gymkhana Club, (Guindy Golf location), Chennai, India in 1884.

13   Shillong Golf Club, Shillong, Maghalaya, India in 1878.

14   Royal Colombo Golf Club, Colombo, Sri Lanka in 1879. The Royal designation came from King George V, 1928.

15   Royal Perak Golf Club, Ipoh, Perak, Malaysia (originally Ipoh Golf Club) in 1879. Its Royal prefix was granted in 1932.


Jim

You (and Ron) must be joking. :o

Many thousands of golf courses were built outside of the UK by 1932.

Rich
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 08:20:28 AM »
Care to have another go, Rich?
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Tim Bert

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 08:39:03 AM »
Rich - I'm no historian so I won't pretend to know how many courses existed by what date, but I think you provided quite a harsh reaction for someone that didn't even read the post carefully. The most recent course on the list was in the 1880s and not the 1930s. He simply stated when the course received its Royal designation but wasn't implying there were only 15 courses by 1932.

I'm not really sure why #12 is more recent than #13 through #15 when the rest of the list is in chronological order. Perhaps that date is a typo?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 08:40:56 AM by Tim Bert »
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Jack_Marr

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 08:48:01 AM »
How old is the Curragh? I think was established some time in the 19th century, maybe late 19th century. Maybe it's not the original course either.
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John Marr(inan)

Mark Pearce

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 08:48:48 AM »
Rich appears to have read the OP in the same way my 17 year old son reads exam questions.  In both cases a little more care would go a long way.....
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 09:00:14 AM »
Quote from: Jack_Marr on July 01, 2013, 08:48:01 AM
How old is the Curragh? I think was established some time in the 19th century, maybe late 19th century. Maybe it's not the original course either.

Good man John... To my knowledge, Curragh was 1850's - same course...

Although you could argue that at the time it was built, etc... etc... etc...
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Jim McCann

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2013, 09:02:40 AM »
Sorry about item 12!

I've since edited the entry, inserting (as the author intended) "Golf play started in 1877".

Surely somebody can unearth a non-UK course that was established before 1879?

It's been claimed that golf was played at the Curragh in 1852, though the club was not formed until 1883.    

 
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BCrosby

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2013, 09:06:28 AM »
I assume the question is about oldest clubs still in existence?

Golf clubs in both Savannah and Charleston existed in the late 18th century. Both are shrouded in mystery. Neither seems to have survived for long into the 19th century.

Bob

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AJ_Foote

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 09:08:11 AM »
Jim,

Apparently the Ratho Links in Tasmania was established in 1822.

rathogolf.com

Andrew
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 09:11:51 AM by Andrew Foote »
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2013, 09:12:02 AM »
Quote from: Jim McCann on July 01, 2013, 09:02:40 AM
Sorry about item 12!

I've since edited the entry, inserting (as the author intended) "Golf play started in 1877".

Surely somebody can unearth a non-UK course that was established before 1879?

It's been claimed that golf was played at the Curragh in 1852, though the club was not formed until 1883.    

 

Curragh Golf Club was 1858 as far as they claim Jim... Royal Belfast next oldest in Ireland at 1881...
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 01:12:40 PM »
Presumably the Curragh isn't mentioned because at the time it was British.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 03:22:47 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson on July 01, 2013, 01:12:40 PM
Presumably the Curragh isn't mentioned because at the time it was British.

You'll have those that say Ireland was never British, Mark... or at least no more than it is now if you subscribe to the geographical term for "The British Isles"... It was however part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland until 1922...

But pedantry aside, that was what I was alluding to above regarding The Curragh...

Still, I think it warrants a mention... India was British in a sense as well when all of those courses in the top 15 were built...
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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 03:36:36 PM »
First mention of golf in Ireland was at Newtownards in 1606. Golf was played at the Curragh in 1852, 1858 and 1875. There was also a course at the north end of Portmarnock in 1858. The first Irish golf club was founded at Bray in 1762. All this info is available in Gibson's excellent book "Early Irish Golf".
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Ulrich Mayring

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 04:04:09 PM »
Royal Calcutta is on the present site since 1910. I believe that makes the course at Pau, France not only the oldest on the European continent (as the club claims), but the oldest anywhere outside the British Isles.

Ulrich
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 02:47:54 PM »

It seems to me that most of the earliest clubs outside the U.K. might well be the result of the British Army
barracks being in the vicinity.

Bob
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Keith Durrant

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2013, 04:53:26 PM »
Given Jersey is not part of the UK, it should qualify:

A group of enthusiasts in Jersey, led by FW Brewster and encouraged by many officers of the Militia, mapped out an 18-hole course which, in 1878, was opened as The Jersey Golf Club. A year later the Lieutenant Governor received the Queens warrant to add "Royal" to the Club's title.
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Josh Stevens

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 06:19:20 PM »
Someone mentioned it - the Ratho course in Bothwell tasmania is the oldest outside the UK.  Was never a club however, just some holes a farmer built on his own place - but the question was the oldest course, not the oldest club, so it wins.  Still exists in some form, albeit with some modifications
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2013, 06:53:52 AM »
Bob spot on!
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Rich Goodale

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2013, 08:52:08 AM »
My bad?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 08:54:43 AM by Rich Goodale »
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Paul Stephenson

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Re: The oldest 15 golf courses outside the United Kingdom New
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2013, 07:41:56 PM »
Niagara on the Lake Golf Club in Niagara on the Lake, Ontario dates from 1875.  It still sits on its original site too.  It is and always has been a nine hole course so I'm not sure if that would disqualify it from consideration.

According to their website C.B. Macdonald won a tournament there in 1895, The Niagara International.  He also won the long drive competition with a distance of  179 yards 1 foot 6 inches.  How about rolling the ball back to 1895?

Also, there were 10 founding members of the Canadian Golf Association (CGA)in 1895.  It became Royal in 1896.  Niagara was not one of the 10.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 07:53:47 PM by Paul Stephenson »
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