The Return of The Doakaphiles

[Patrick_Mucci]

Merion had to undertake what some might call drastic measures to protect par, Sebonack did not have to make substantive modifications.

Apples to oranges.Merion was hosting a slightly more talented field.

If Merion had hosted the Women's Open,think the golf course would have been altered to that degree to protect par?

If Sebonack had hosted the Men's Open,think the golf course would have been so unaltered?

That wasn't the question.

But, to answer your question, the answer is NO, Sebonack would NOT have to narrow fairways as Merion did.
Sebonack's defense lies elsewhere, starting with ample length.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mooch, you're the last guy on here that I thought would be AFRAID of Merion.  The bombers and gougers I understand, but you?


Mike,

Would I like to play Merion the day after the OPEN, absolutely.
Would I like to play it every day, absolutely not.

I think you have to refine your question.

For everyday play, Merion after the Open would be torture for anyone less than a PGA Tour Pro, and even those guys complained about the conditions.

Sebonack, the day after the Open would be a pleasure to play.

For the Open Sebonack played short with fairly benign hole locations due to fears of impending weather and the memory of # 7 at Shinnecock dancing in the USGA heads.

Sebonack is fun to play, MAINLY BECAUSE OF ITS GENEROUS FAIRWAYS.

But, you would prefer to play ribbon like fairways lined with 6-9 inch rough.    Not me.

For the last number of decades, "hard" had been equated with "good" architecture, and the desire to play a hard course merely reinforces that misguided notion.

There is no horizontal choice off the tee at Merion, you're playing target golf in the ultimate.

At Sebonack, you have ample choices.
On the second hole, (1st in the Open) you can play down # 18 and vice versa.
You can play down # 3 and vice versa.

The wind and the setup provide for a wide variety of choices off the tee on many holes.

What were your choices off the tee at Merion ?

And, I'm a fairly consistent and accurate driver, I just don't have the strength to hack it out of 6-9 inch rough should I err.

Golfers are a macho bunch, and I like and appreciate that.  I like the attempt to rise to a challenge
But, I also don't want to beat my brains in day in and day out to the point where it becomes unenjoyable.

Give me wide fairways with creative architecture over "single file" fairways on a daily basis.

Merion, circa 1948/1951 is my ideal, certainly not circa 2013

Hope that helps

[Ronald Montesano]

For the third consecutive thread, Patrick's arguments match my own. I do believe that Merion could have successfully hosted a women's open and looked like the course of 1950. I also believe that you could have switched genders at Sebonack with zero alteration beyond hole location. I even liked the grandstands, intimate as they were. Nothing oversized, although you would need more to accommodate enhanced attendance.

Yup, the green ink is seeping in.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ron,

Everybody is entitled to my opinion  

[Jud_T]

Tom's overblown rep on this site is obviously due to his legendary gregariousness rather than anything to do with his talent as a GCA.  I've played a half dozen of his courses and they're all overrated dogtracks.  Hell, most of 'em tip out under 7k and none of 'em have even hosted a run-of-the-mill PGA Tour event, not to mention a major.  They all have entirely too much rub of the green and insufficient demands on the tee ball.  Hell, if I never see another latter-day minimalist course it'll be too soon.  Pardon me, my crystal meth dealer is at the door...

[Jim Colton]

You forgot...he could build a 10 on the moon somehow

http://youtu.be/pHNiZgFORf0

[Rich Goodale]

Mooch, you're the last guy on here that I thought would be AFRAID of Merion.  The bombers and gougers I understand, but you?


Mike,

Would I like to play Merion the day after the OPEN, absolutely.
Would I like to play it every day, absolutely not.

I think you have to refine your question.

For everyday play, Merion after the Open would be torture for anyone less than a PGA Tour Pro, and even those guys complained about the conditions.

Sebonack, the day after the Open would be a pleasure to play.

For the Open Sebonack played short with fairly benign hole locations due to fears of impending weather and the memory of # 7 at Shinnecock dancing in the USGA heads.

Sebonack is fun to play, MAINLY BECAUSE OF ITS GENEROUS FAIRWAYS.

But, you would prefer to play ribbon like fairways lined with 6-9 inch rough.    Not me.

For the last number of decades, "hard" had been equated with "good" architecture, and the desire to play a hard course merely reinforces that misguided notion.

There is no horizontal choice off the tee at Merion, you're playing target golf in the ultimate.

At Sebonack, you have ample choices.
On the second hole, (1st in the Open) you can play down # 18 and vice versa.
You can play down # 3 and vice versa.

The wind and the setup provide for a wide variety of choices off the tee on many holes.

What were your choices off the tee at Merion ?

And, I'm a fairly consistent and accurate driver, I just don't have the strength to hack it out of 6-9 inch rough should I err.

Golfers are a macho bunch, and I like and appreciate that.  I like the attempt to rise to a challenge
But, I also don't want to beat my brains in day in and day out to the point where it becomes unenjoyable.

Give me wide fairways with creative architecture over "single file" fairways on a daily basis.

Merion, circa 1948/1951 is my ideal, certainly not circa 2013

Hope that helps

Were you alive in 1948/1951 Pat, and if so did you play Merion then and, how old were you and what kind of length did you get from your driver and Super 88s, and could you makle the quarry carry on 18?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Someone ought to do one of those subtitled Hitler spoofs, talking about Doak or his supporters or golf courses.  Potential for hilarity ensues. 

Hitler banging fist on table:
(subtitle)
What do you mean the 18th at Dismal River isn't the best hole in the world? (bangs fist again) I won't hear of it.....Invade Nebraska RIGHT NOW!

Subordinate
(subtitle)
But my Fuerher......that isn't possible!

Hitler :
(subtitle)
DO IT! That golf course must be OURS!

pre coffed rants........sorry.

[Matthew Mollica]

You forgot...he could build a 10 on the moon somehow

http://youtu.be/pHNiZgFORf0

Thanks Jim - that clip never ceases to make me smile.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Were you alive in 1948/1951 Pat,

And kicking !

and if so did you play Merion then and,

My father took me with him when he played in the U.S. Opens in the late 40's and early 50's.

how old were you and what kind of length did you get from your driver and Super 88s, and could you makle the quarry carry on 18?

The carry on # 18 was too long for me then, and it's too long for me now.
But, in between, I could handle it.

[Mike Hendren]

Patrick, you're not the first man to sell 3 to 4 inches as 6 to 9 inches. 

Bogey

[Jim Franklin]

Patrick, you're not the first man to sell 3 to 4 inches as 6 to 9 inches. 

Bogey

That rough may not have been 6-9", but it certainly was taller than 3-4". My guess was 5-6" when I was walking around Saturday.

[Richard Choi]

Talk about taking things out of context... Yeesh!!!

Sebonack over Merion is about hating USGA set up, not Doak worship.

People were saying Dismal 18th is the best Doak finishing hole, not all courses. Actually, that comment could be taken more as a slight to Doak than compliment.