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Joe Bausch

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Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« on: June 28, 2013, 08:22:55 PM »
At a course I grew up near (Victoria National), a club pro shot 103 in the 2nd round today.  No, he did not make the cut.  I think I shot 103 in non-tournament conditions a few years back with two GolfClubAtlas guys.   ;)

But the comments from the fellow are just awesome:

"I think it's important to lead by example and show the youth that no matter how bad you play, it's important to finish," he told Golf Channel. "No one likes to see a quitter. I know none of the members at my club or any students that I teach would want to see me quit."

And more:

"It's not much fun to shoot 103, but I still had fun," he said. "Everyone has their good days and their bad days; you just have to keep your head in it, just keep plugging away and trying to get better."

So, two questions:

1.  In this we'll never know category, do you think you would have hung in there and signed your card?  [Me, probably not]

2.  If you've played VN, is it too hard? [Me:  no.  But if you got it going sideways, a train wreck is possible]
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:29:00 PM by Joe Bausch »
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jeffwarne

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 08:29:40 PM »
Certainly doesn't make me want to play VN now ;)

 posting the score is the only thing to do.
I tell all my juniors that the the players with letters next to their name came in last, NOT the guy with the highest score.
Particulalrly difficult for a club pro who has to answer to his members,
which is why it's great to have stroke play Club Champonship Qualifier ;D ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Nigel Islam

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 08:48:39 PM »
I think he qualified at Quail Crossing. I noticed yesterday he shot 89 too. It probably is one of the harder courses on Web.com. I don't think that Victoria is THAT hard. Its just the kind of course when you get it going sideways doubles and triples are very easy to make on almost every hole. I was out there Wednesday, and the set-up was pretty much as it has been every time I have been there.

Andy Troeger

Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 09:07:32 PM »
I think he qualified at Quail Crossing. I noticed yesterday he shot 89 too. It probably is one of the harder courses on Web.com. I don't think that Victoria is THAT hard. Its just the kind of course when you get it going sideways doubles and triples are very easy to make on almost every hole. I was out there Wednesday, and the set-up was pretty much as it has been every time I have been there.

I thought the Golf Channel mentioned he was given a special exemption. I expect he doesn't get to play a lot of golf as an assistant pro.

I agree with what you said about the difficulty of the course. I think if a player can drive the ball at least reasonably well that its very playable, but wide misses are almost always going to be wet or lost. I remember playing pretty well for 13 holes (around +3) and then finishing with 85 because the final five got me.

Jonathan Mallard

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 10:03:34 PM »
http://iga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/iga12/profile/mbembenick/tresults.htm

From the scores he posted last year - the best of which is 75 in 6 rounds - the question begged is what was he even doing there?

Michael Moore

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 10:28:19 PM »
you would have hung in there and signed your card?  [Me, probably not]

Please rethink this.

It took me seven tries and ultimately a hole-in-one to qualify for my first Maine Amateur. When I got to Martindale and saw the giant banner welcoming us I got a tear in my eye. With my Dad pushing the clubs, I doubled the first hole, and then it started to rain. On the fourth hole my driver practically slipped out of my hand, leading to a quadruple bogey. On the fourteenth hole, I hit my three wood so far off the heel that it went directly behind me into the woods, leading to a sextuple bogey. I finished with a 97.

The next day was rained out and I lay about feeling sorry for myself. On the following day, when I arrived at the course to play round two with the same players and caddies who had watched me approach triple digits, one of the caddies, another Dad who was caddying for his teenaged son pulled me aside and said "I really liked the way you handled yourself yesterday. It's really important for the kids to see that."

I went out that day and shot a 95 with six shanks and a quintuple bogey on the final hole. I was 50 over par for two rounds, I missed the cut by 38 shots, and I came in last by seven shots.

Since then I have qualified three out of four times, and I have had a couple of great vacations with my trusty caddy in Bar Harbor and Bethel, and my scores have been much better.

Finish your round and submit your card. Always. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for me and Dad.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 10:48:02 PM »
When I was a junior I played with Lou Graham ('75 US Open Champion).  I shot 49 on the first 9 and wanted to quit.  Lou told me golfers and gentlemen do not behave that way and to get my butt back in the game.  I shot 38 on the back 9 and have never no carded since.
I have to give that young man credit for turning his card in.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 12:35:29 AM »
VN is that hard. I'm not that great, but I don't suck horribly either. It took everything I had not shoot a bazillion out there.

Sidney Lin

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 04:37:43 AM »
In my opinion he did the right thing in respecting the game the course and his opponents. Do soccer players walk off at 3-0 down and say sorry I am done?

I take my hat off to him and the respect and humility he showed. You will not see him again as I am sure there is a rule of 86 where you will not play a PGA tour or web.com event again that year if you shoot worse than + 16. Please correct me if I am wrong on that one. It's why so many guys WD when they are having a bad day and fake an injury....they wanna keep their card!


Scott Warren

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 04:55:28 AM »
The NCR (no card returned) is the most gutless act in golf.

Jud_T

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2013, 05:59:42 AM »
He did the right thing, but why is an assistant pro who hasn't picked up a club in 3 weeks taking a spot that could have gone to someone with conditional tour status who's chomping at the bit?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Carson Pilcher

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 07:34:27 AM »
About three years ago, I was playing the GA State Mid-Am.  During the second round, I had "one of those days".  While warming up, my 6-iron flies off the shaft and into the range.  No way to fix it.  Of course, first hole, perfect 6-iron yardage into the green.  The day continued.  I cannot remember what I shot, but it was high.  I bucked it up, had fun and tried to stay out of my fellow competitors way.

At the end, I walked off the 18th to the scorer's table.  I signed the card and turned it in.  Here is what startles me.  The GSGA official looks at the card and says something along the lines of, "I cannot believe you are turning this in.  Most guys wouldn't".  I just said, "Well, it is what I shot".

Now, I tell this story, not as a proverbiale self-pat on the back.  I did nothing other than what you are supposed to do.  What gets me, is that it has become such commonplace to NOT turn the card in on a bad day that the official was surprised I was doing it.  It is my fear that the next generation of golfers do not have the sense of what is proper manners.  More golfers need ot hear the story of Bobby Jones tearing up his card and walking off, and yet then stating it was one of his greatest regrets in golf.  You shoot what you shoot.  Sign the card and then play another day.  No ego involved.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 08:00:17 AM by Carson Pilcher »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 08:29:59 AM »
So the two branches of this tree are: did he do the correct thing by finishing and signing (of course) and should he have been there (open to debate, so have at it.) Find a way to make it architecturally relevant, if you can.
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BHoover

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 08:32:07 AM »
Maybe he was too preoccupied with the course architecture and forgot to play his game?

Tim Martin

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 08:39:21 AM »
He should have declined the invitation based on his playing ability and for the reason that he took a spot from someone who most likely would have had a chance to at least make the cut. I can't imagine that shooting 103 has any significant "teachable moment". I think that special exemptions present a nice opportunity to recognize local participants and create some fun story-lines. That said this one missed the mark and the player knew that going in.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 08:52:36 AM »
The architectural relevance is that for all but the highest level PGA tour events, most courses are set up to protect the bottom of the field to some degree.  Any time you get club pros mixed in with tour vets, most of them struggle and the PGA surely doesn't want its members turning in 100 scores at any tournament.  It sort of taints the brand!

VN sure looked tougher than many could handle based on the little I watched of it.

Speaking recently with one of those club pro types who has done well in the national stage, he commented that even at the college level, where they are supposed to be "longer than Tiger and Phil" only the top 1-3 of any team of 10 are really 300 yard hitters.  For the bottom half, who may hit tee balls as low as 260 yards, they keep most NCAA tournament courses to 7250 yards or so.

As long as fields vary - and they nearly all do - and tournaments want to offer club pros, ams, etc. a once in a lifetime chance to tee it up in a tourney, then we have to soften courses a bit and accept winners at 10-20 under par, since they are that much better.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jason Topp

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2013, 09:04:46 AM »
So the two branches of this tree are: did he do the correct thing by finishing and signing (of course) and should he have been there (open to debate, so have at it.) Find a way to make it architecturally relevant, if you can.

The golf course looks tough.  I wonder if a more strategic design would have avoided this result?  I suspect not because, in my experience it is impossible to design a course wide enough for someone who is truly rattled.

If he got a special exemption it would be interesting to see the back story. Special exemptions are not for guys that have conditional status.  They are for guys that will help the sponsor in some way.

The scores posted earlier are from 2012.  Thus guy did have a 72 in his most recent section tournament to finish 2nd so the guy does have some skills:

http://iga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/iga13/event/iga131/contest/10/profile/mbembenick/tresults.htm?

I tore up a scorecard at age 17 after encountering the yips for the first time and seven putting from 3 feet  and shooting 90.  It was one of my better life lessons.  I have posted a lot of bad scores over the intervening 30 years.  It makes the good ones more rewarding.
 

Andy Troeger

Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2013, 09:23:43 AM »
I was a decent junior player through about age 15. I qualified for Indiana's "Junior Masters" series based on that and then in my 2nd event got the shanks and I think was +7 after three holes and went on to shoot 50 on my first nine after topping my tee shot on the 9th into the hazard in front of the tee. Ended up with 95. Those last couple years of competitive golf were erratic at best. I remember another event where I had the shanks so bad that I was hitting knockdown cut 5-woods from 150 out because it was the only club I could pretend to hit. I had other days where I played pretty well and shot in the 75-78 range, but I never knew which guy would show up on any given day. I did turn in every scorecard, although my last competitive event was a 95 and I was in the car by the time the score was put on the board. I swore never to play another stroke play event again--14 years later I have not been tempted!

Jason,
The course is very strategic for a good player who is on their game. There are plenty of angles in play and preferred sides of fairways, etc. The fairways are pretty generous. The preferred side of the fairway, however, is usually guarded by some pretty nasty hazards, so it is easy to make some big numbers if a good player gets too greedy or an errant driver can't stay in play. There are at least 3 pretty good short par fours--I was surprised through 13 holes that the golf course wasn't more difficult. The last five make up for that!

Jeff,
It is funny you say that. I watch most of these courses on TV and they often look pretty generous, far easier on really wayward shots than most of the courses I play. It makes sense that they don't want these guys shooting big numbers. Victoria National is not that kind of course, however!

Nigel Islam

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 10:46:18 AM »
Andy is right the fairways are more than fair, but if you miss either side on a lot of them you are staring at a double. I think the take home point for me is that Victoria plays exactly the same for the tournament as it does for daily play. They did nothing to toughen up the course, and last year they actuallly had some of the tees moved up. Those last 5 have to rank right up there with the toughest finish in tournament golf.

Andy Troeger

Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 12:22:24 PM »
Nigel,
Good points...I meant to add one more thing to my previous post. The preferred side is usually guarded as mentioned, but the other side often has a couple bunkers that are often more to keep balls in play, plus a layer of rough around them, but after that the ball is often gone on that side too.

It absolutely is a course designed for the better golfer--there are many forced carries and tough shots, but I think its very fair as well.

jeffwarne

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2013, 02:23:51 PM »
Those who don't understand how this could happen, have never played competive stroke play golf.(or they're really good)

Put a guy a bit out of his league, throw in pressure, get it going sideways on a course that looks like ZERO fun to play competitively in stroke play. and it's a recipe for exactly what happened.
Don't think it can happen?
Enter your Club Championship stroke play qualifier, and add 2 to your score every time you hit one outside the corridors of findable at VN.

Bringing the topic back to architecture, I think it was MacKenzie who said tight golf courses do not create great gollfers, because they inhibit the development of a free swinging motion.
Now I'm sure there's plenty of room on one or both sides at VN (the F word , fair ::) ::) ), but it appears that a ball could be lost on any swing.
ick
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 02:30:07 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sam Morrow

Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2013, 02:56:51 PM »
Ironically he used Kavanaugh's locker

Andy Troeger

Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2013, 03:38:48 PM »
Now I'm sure there's plenty of room on one or both sides at VN (the F word , fair ::) ::) ), but it appears that a ball could be lost on any swing.
ick

Make sure not to visit Prairie Dunes then. Or any number of courses when they haven't bothered to mow down the hay off the greens for awhile. I agree that I wouldn't want to play them in competition, but I'm not any good!

jeffwarne

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2013, 03:53:48 PM »
Now I'm sure there's plenty of room on one or both sides at VN (the F word , fair ::) ::) ), but it appears that a ball could be lost on any swing.
ick

Make sure not to visit Prairie Dunes then. Or any number of courses when they haven't bothered to mow down the hay off the greens for awhile. I agree that I wouldn't want to play them in competition, but I'm not any good!

Andy,
There are plenty like that, some real close to home in fact ;)
Visiting a course is one thing, stroke play is another ;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

BHoover

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Re: Club pro shoots 103 during Web.com Tour event
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2013, 07:19:54 PM »
What I really feel sorry for this guy is not that he played poorly, that happens. But he's a teaching pro. Who's going to want to take lessons from a pro who can't break 100?

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