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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here we go again......
« on: June 28, 2013, 11:33:15 AM »
British political big-wig comes out swinging against Muirfield holding the Open Championship.

Se:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10148105/Alex-Salmond-Staging-Open-at-Muirfield-gives-impression-women-are-second-class-citizens.html

Comments welcome.

Bob  
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 01:13:29 AM by Bob_Huntley »

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 11:36:30 AM »
Shocking...
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 11:37:11 AM »
You say British political big wigs, but all I see is reference to Alex Salmond.

That political small wig is just pandering to the women's vote for his Scottish (Small Degree of) Independence vote.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 11:44:01 AM »

British political big-wig comes out swinging against Muirfield holding the Open Championship.

Se:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10148105/Alex-Salmond-Staging-Open-at-Muirfield-gives-impression-women-are-second-class-citizens.html

Comments welcome.

Bob 
Have any of you ever been black-balled?  For every action there is a reaction.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 11:48:20 AM »
Why isn't maintaining an all male club just a way of preserving political power that is eroding to the fairer sex in this day and age? It's not about the golf. Augusta National is basically a political and business entity that happens to have a golf course. They manned up and admitted women.

So, I'm thinking Muirfield should man up too.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 11:49:16 AM »
You say British political big wigs, but all I see is reference to Alex Salmond.

That political small wig is just pandering to the women's vote for his Scottish (Small Degree of) Independence vote.

Martin,

Did I use the plural?

Bob

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 11:54:06 AM »
I wonder how much leverage the R & A has on the "Honorable Gentlemen".

As we are now in the thirteenth year of the twenty first century and this issue continues to exist is beyond me.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 12:06:19 PM »
Muirfield will admit women or be dropped from the rota.  End of discussion.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 12:09:17 PM »
I see two practices of custom and behavior that are questionable in a modern context that continue to confound the public citizen just trying to get along in our complex and too often priveleged and bifurcated society.  One is the anachronism of exclusively organized private clubs along membership lines of gender or race discrimination also hosting and perpetuating the standing and prestige of hosting national championship events.  Stodgy and traditional they may be, but it is only a matter of time that the 'tory conservative mentality' of fiercly maintaining their old exclusivity based on gender or race will fall.  It fell at Augusta primarily because in our modern context of beliefs and mores that the idea of all male or all white clubs is anathema to our evolving sensibility on such matters.  And, it will fall in the old British Empire as well.

The second thing that continues to become maddeningly disgusting to the everyday citizen trying to get along and play fair by the rules of governance and taxation and such where we are all expected to give our fair share, is the notion that these priveleged legislators and officials have the gall to spend the public's treasure, needed greatly to assist real life health and welfare or even business-job creation endeavors, to be wasted on some pompous ass or asses faux representing the notion of a governmental ruling class presence at national or prestige events, as if they confer some aura of officialdom approval for the event.  The event, if a great championship as The Open or Ryder Cup does not need the official imprimatur of some gasbag legislator or official to confer public sanction or approval to the event.  The people in attendance and following it around the world is prestige enough!!!

Let these asses pay their own freight if they desire to enjoy witnessing the sporting spectacle, just like the rest of us commoners!  After all, they more able than we to afford the cost of admission.  The trouble is that none of the priveleged officials spending the public resources have to sacrifice and make a prioritized decision of whether to spend their resources on an occasional entertainment vs a pressing domestic need like a repaired roof or brake job, etc.  When the common person decides to spend a little on themselves, they usually give up something else.  These asses give up nothing yet spend what you have contributed to the public treasury in honesty to pay your fair share, expecting it to be spent on common needs of which there are many, always.

A pox on all their politician houses and special official box seats and booths.  >:(
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 12:23:27 PM »
I do feel a little sorry for Muirfield, Troon and RSG. They are entitled to select their own membership and they do not control the tournament.  

The R&A get off lightly because the focus is always on the Clubs, when it’s the decision to ask these clubs to host that should be debated.   Last year Dawson went on a lovely jolly to Brazil to choose the course designer. For a no of years he led a campaign to get golf back into the Olympics during which they made all the right noises about inclusiveness.

On the R&A website they say “The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities that are undertaken for the benefit of the game of golf.”   How this entirely predictable row benefits the game of Golf I can not see.  We need more young and women golfers and we need to be seen to be welcoming them.  We do not need The Open held at all male clubs.  Time for change at the R&A. The clubs should continue to do whatever they want.

 http://www.randa.org/en/RandA.aspx  
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 12:28:40 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 12:25:37 PM »
Quote
If I believed in idolatry I would have a golden statue made of you. Great post!


KBM, ha!  I stand ready to receive your idolatry.  Rub my brass snout and I shall grant you your wish.  It is I, Il Porcellino, Chinghiale of i Fiorentini Fortunati.   ::) ;D 8)

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Sam Morrow

Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 12:26:12 PM »
I think Pasatiempo should allow women and Muirfield should change their logo.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 12:47:24 PM »
I wonder how much leverage the R & A has on the "Honorable Gentlemen".
How many female members are there in the R&A - I think the answer is 0.  Shouldn't the first step be to get female members of the R&A before they can criticize or pressure others into accepting women?

p.s. - You forget a u as it is spelled "Honourable".

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 01:53:42 PM »
You say British political big wigs, but all I see is reference to Alex Salmond.

That political small wig is just pandering to the women's vote for his Scottish (Small Degree of) Independence vote.

Martin,

Did I use the plural?

Bob

Alex can easily be mistaken for the plural.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 02:06:30 PM »
...
Why do we have to try and homogenise and sap the individuality out of EVERYTHING in this world? I see it happening everywhere and it saddens me.

It seems to me that these type of men's clubs are all about homogeneity and sap out individuality.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 02:08:32 PM »
a fair penalty would be to NEVER allow them to host the Weetabix British Women's Open ;) ;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 02:33:24 PM »
...
Why do we have to try and homogenise and sap the individuality out of EVERYTHING in this world? I see it happening everywhere and it saddens me.

It seems to me that these type of men's clubs are all about homogeneity and sap out individuality.


They're all about homogeneity by choice - that's my whole point. My homogenisation and sapping out individuality points were on a macro level.

So if individuality is good at the macro level, why isn't it good at the micro level?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 03:23:27 PM »
They are entitled to select their own membership and they do not control the tournament. 


Agreed. Where I disagree with Tony is any onus on those clubs to "grow the game" or being seen to be welcoming to all. Clubs like Muirfield and its members have nurtured something very special for centuries and owe the game nothing. They can conduct themselves on their private property as they see fit within the boundaries of the law.
 


Brain where have I stated that there is any onus on the Clubs to grow the game.  My beef is entirely with the R&A.

I say it is hypocritical to lobby for inclusion in the Olympic movement and all that involves whilst at the same time to place your premier completion on courses run by exclusionary Clubs in 3 out of the next 5 years.  I say nothing against all male clubs, in fact I am a member of one, but the R&A have created this mess and it is a mess.  Golf has a poor history in this regard and the least the leading body can do is to move forward and  present us with a shining example of all that is right with golf.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 03:25:20 PM »
Brian,

The members of Muirfield are free to do as they please.  If they choose to relive their experience at British Boys' school so be it.  Noone is holding a gun to their heads insisting that they host the Open.  They will not, however, be able to continue to have their cake and eat it indefinitely.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 03:38:40 PM »
Garland - I am biting my lip here. Just re-read my posts and you'll eventually figure out what I'm saying. OK - bowing out of this thread now. It is riling me too much!

I know what you are saying. I'm just asking for justification of your logic on homogeneity/individualism.
It seems to me that all the things you say are good about the club reek of homogeneity and you object to the attempts to remove the individualistic homogeneousness. It seems to me these clubs are not all that "individualistic" given that they are quite common.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 03:57:24 PM »
It is my understanding the R&A place pressure on HCEG to hold the Open as the pros like the place and the members don't need the championship.

This is what I think will happen, within the next couple of years the R&A will accept women members. After this a county council will insist the Open is at a club which allows women members. They can prevent an Open by withdrawing the emergency services, highways, etc.

My guess is HCEG and RStG will step aside and drop out of the roster. I'm not sure about Royal Troon.
Cave Nil Vino

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 04:06:07 PM »
Does hceg allow women to play the course as guests, like other members of the public?
That was one hellacious beaver.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 05:26:31 PM »
Brian - how have the R&A created the mess?

If people look at the R&A properly there is a company limited in liability that runs golf and the various championships. Then there is the Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews a private club without a course. I'm not foolish enough to think they are seperate but legally they are.

Jud if you think HCEG would be dropped from the rota you know little about them.
Cave Nil Vino

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 05:41:29 PM »

Jud if you think HCEG would be dropped from the rota you know little about them.

That's fine, then they'll be building a ladies locker room....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hear we go again......
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 06:52:37 PM »
I bet if you dig into Salmonds background you will find a prostitute or two and plenty of porn on his computer.

Whats your point?

Tony is absolutely correct.  The R&A runs the show and determines which club will be invited to host the Open.  If the R&A doesn't like certain policies of a club it should not extend an invitation to host the Open.  The ball then is squarely in the court of the club.  For an outsider to hammer on about a club's membership policy (so long as it is within the law) is the height of arrogance.  Would you try to control who can and cannot enter the home of your neighbour as well?   

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 07:07:08 PM by S_arble »
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