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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:47:18 PM »
I confess, I love Sebonack.  And can't wait to be the Women's U.S. Open this week.

Here's Brad Klein's hole by hole analysis.

http://t.golfweek.com/news/2013/jun/24/us-womens-open-2013-sebonack-golf-club-hole-by-hol/
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 10:25:12 PM »
Yeah, I saw that article and posted it under the other Sebonack thread... :) I guess it does deserve its own title.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 10:54:17 PM »
I saw Brad out there this morning, briefly.

I did read through his hole-by-hole and one hole I was surprised to see his description of was the 1st [actual 2nd hole but 1st hole for the tournament].  Brad said players will always aim for the left corner of the green and go from there ... but, if you pull it to the left, it's an almost impossible up and down to any hole location.  I think they'd probably be better off playing to the middle or right-center of the green most days.  An uphill putt beats a downhill putt on that green, every time.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 11:00:49 PM »
Tom,

Is this your first course to host a major?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 11:14:40 PM »
Tom,

Is this your first course to host a major?

Mac:

The course isn't all mine, of course, but yes, this is the first really big professional tournament on one of my courses, never mind a major.  I haven't had many clients who had that as a priority -- really the only one was The Renaissance Club.  In fact, the whole time we were building Sebonack, there was never any thought about hosting a professional tournament.  [As you can probably tell if you are out here this week, trying to follow the action around a lot of obstacles.  It's a lot easier to walk inside the ropes!]

They did play the Curtis Cup Matches at Pacific Dunes, and that made-for-TV event at Cape Kidnappers, but those were a lot smaller than this.  I can see where most architects would pride themselves on having their course chosen for a tournament.  Personally, I'm just enjoying watching players who can hit the ball where they want to, and seeing what happens when it lands.  It's like they are play-testing the course just for me.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 11:50:22 PM »
I saw Brad out there this morning, briefly.

I did read through his hole-by-hole and one hole I was surprised to see his description of was the 1st [actual 2nd hole but 1st hole for the tournament].  Brad said players will always aim for the left corner of the green and go from there ... but, if you pull it to the left, it's an almost impossible up and down to any hole location.  I think they'd probably be better off playing to the middle or right-center of the green most days.  An uphill putt beats a downhill putt on that green, every time.

The member I played with told me he always plays for the front-right portion of the green.

He missed the green 10 feet to the left and had no chance to a back-left pin.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 12:44:09 AM »
Sebonack will get my interest as I've played it a number of times and will play it again after the Open.

It will be interesting to see where the holes will be located, ditto the tees.

If Mother Nature cp-operates it should be a terrific event

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 03:30:10 AM »
Very much looking forward to watching the US Women's Open at Sebonack.

A question though. Brads hole-by-hole review shows collars of rough around the bunkers, a feature that has been debated on several GCA threads recently.

Was Sebonack designed to have collars of rough around the bunkers or have are they been subsequently introduced or have they just kinda 'evolved' through maintenance practices?

Just curious.

All the best.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 06:14:11 AM »
A question though. Brads hole-by-hole review shows collars of rough around the bunkers, a feature that has been debated on several GCA threads recently.

Was Sebonack designed to have collars of rough around the bunkers or have are they been subsequently introduced or have they just kinda 'evolved' through maintenance practices?


Thomas:

Those have evolved.  The entire golf course was hydroseeded, and the grass around the bunkers is the same as on the fairways ... but with the severity of some of the bunker lips, it's fairly difficult [and expensive] to mow into them all.  However, for the tournament, the USGA asked the club to mow down the grass leading into the bunkers as much as possible, so many of the areas you're referring to in pictures are now scalped down, and balls will roll into the bunkers more easily ... if the ladies ever miss a shot, that is.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 07:49:54 AM »
Concur. Golfers that missed two/one to the left had to play up the green and allow the ball to filter down...it was very Bagger Vance.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 07:54:08 AM »
Not be be sacrilegious, but does anyone else think Sebonack is a bit over bunkered?

Yes, I have played Sebonack, love Tom Doak and his work. No, I will not get specific.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 08:20:53 AM »
Tom,

Thanks for the answer. Pleased that the USGA asked the club to mow down the grass leading into the bunkers as much as possible. Looking forward to the TV coverage.

All the best

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 08:46:07 AM »
Tom,

Thanks for the answer. Pleased that the USGA asked the club to mow down the grass leading into the bunkers as much as possible. Looking forward to the TV coverage.

All the best

Thomas,
Just to play devil's advocate here ;) (even if I generally agree with you in spirit)
Given that bunkers are nearly universally maintained perfectly and generally a pretty easy up and down, what would the harm be in having a few balls hang up in the rough in an awkward lie, rather than rolling to the bottom of a bunker for an easy up and down?

Of course we all here on GCA like bunkers that are fed in from the fairways, but it's generally much more difficult to maintain, and often not possible when the fairway grasses are not the same as the rough.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 08:56:00 AM »
Wondering if there will be practical lessons learned by the architect(s) as a result of this tournament.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 10:07:05 AM »
I know I will be watching with great interest.   TD...can you tell me what kind of green speed I will be watching this week?
Sebonack will be a great test.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 11:12:25 AM »
Were there any changes to the greens?  I played it twice and the greens were very fast and difficult to putt - both times I played were 3+ years ago.  I heard they were thinking about softening some of them for this tournament, but I thought just leave them and slow the greens down.

Paul 
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 11:51:05 AM »
They are neither softened nor slow. Putting will be a difference-maker this week, as it always is.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 11:58:20 AM »
"Putting will be a difference-maker this week, as it always is."

Might as well hand the trophy to In Bee Park now! ;)

USGA video overview of the course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coEfrGD2hp0&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 01:28:17 PM by David_Tepper »

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 01:30:17 PM »
      Was there yesterday.

If you have a chance to go to the tournament you should.

The golf course as presented by the club and the USGA is stunning.

Those who might want to go with you who don't play golf will not be disappointed either. We live in a beautiful part of the world and Sebonack possesses some of the best vistas overlooking Peconic Bay.

Unable to go? The course should appear brilliant on hi def.


« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 02:01:57 PM by Gene Greco »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Mike Sweeney

Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 01:50:54 PM »
      Was there yesterday.

If you have a chance to go to the tournament you should.

The golf course as presented by the club and the USGA is stunning.

Those who might want to go with you who don't play golf will not be disappointed either. We live in a beautiful part of the world and Sebonack possesses some of the best vistas.

The golf course as presented by the club and the USGA is stunning.

Unable to go? The course should appear brilliant on hi def.






Peter Pallotta

Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2013, 01:59:20 PM »
Thanks, Brad et al

Just from pictures, it is a very appealing course more in a Shinnecock than in a NGLA sort of way.

Peter

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2013, 04:13:17 PM »
.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 04:37:18 PM by Bill Brightly »

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 04:14:26 PM »
Tom Doak must have smiled at this comment from Kerrie Webb in Golfweek:

Webb, a two-time USWO champion, said the Jack Nicklaus-Tom Doak design didn’t favor one person. For those hitting it well, Webb said, there’s “a bit of freedom off the tee.”

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2013, 10:39:36 PM »
Incredible course, can´t wait to see it on TV, I have never seen Nicklaus involved in such fine work but it does look very very Doaky. Anyways, Congrats to both!

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brad Klein, Sebonack, Hole by Hole
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 12:04:38 AM »
Another Sebonack article today from the USGA website focusing on the design colloboration.  Also some stunning Larry Lambrecht photos can be viewed via a link in the story.

http://www.usga.org/ChampEventArticle.aspx?id=21474856912
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin