[John Percival]

Hello to all GCAers. Allow me to introduce myself. I am John Percival from Birmingham, Michigan.
It has been a pleasure to read the DG's topics over the years and now Ran has invited me to join your discussions. Thank you, Ran.

Just some brief background...am a former PGA Golf Professional who only taught for 20 years. Was a GD Panelist (retired 2 yrs ago due to some health issues). Won the GD Armchair Architect contest in 1991 (for the 5 par). Am a design consultant to Bruce Matthews out of Lansing, Michigan. And, am a member at Oakland Hills CC in Bloomfield Hills, MI.
Looking forward to many entertaining and provocative discussions with you.

John Percival

[Powell Arms]

Welcome.

Powell

[Mark Pritchett]

Welcome John, looking forward to your participation. 

[PCCraig]

Welcome John!

[Ryan Taylor]

Welcome John from a fellow metro Detroiter. I'm a member at nearby Red Run GC if you ever want to get together to discuss gca.

-Ryan

[mike_beene]

Welcome. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts on teaching,improvement and why some of us revert to bad habits.

[Brent Carlson]

Hello to all GCAers. Allow me to introduce myself. I am John Percival from Birmingham, Michigan.
It has been a pleasure to read the DG's topics over the years and now Ran has invited me to join your discussions. Thank you, Ran.

Just some brief background...am a former PGA Golf Professional who only taught for 20 years. Was a GD Panelist (retired 2 yrs ago due to some health issues). Won the GD Armchair Architect contest in 1991 (for the 5 par). Am a design consultant to Bruce Matthews out of Lansing, Michigan. And, am a member at Oakland Hills CC in Bloomfield Hills, MI.
Looking forward to many entertaining and provocative discussions with you.

John Percival

Welcome John.  What is your favorite hole at Oakland Hills?  Will the US Open be coming back to OH?  When?

Brent

[Mac Plumart]

Hey John,

Welcome aboard.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Oakland Hills and a few pictures would be appreciated too.

[John Percival]

To all who have sent greetings, thank you.
An important detail I omitted from my intro...am a technology moron. Will do my best to keep up. But please bear with my fumblings.
To respond to ur comments:
Ryan @ Red Run - absolutely. Perhaps in 2-3 weeks. Am off to LA for a week. But will look fwd to our sit down (or 18)

Brian - Played 4 holes today with a Cory from Pinehurst? He is off to Chicago GC and then Milwaukee. Would have enjoyed playing more, but was melting in the heat/humidity and had to settle for 9 holes

Mike B - love to talk teaching. Miss it. Soon.

Brent - #7 South. A tremendous strategic/heroic hole and the start of a daunting 5 hole stretch. As far as the Open, we hope so. We have the Am in '16. As for the Open...TBD?

Mac - OH is in incredible condition. Steve Cook and his staff have the courses (we have South and North) in great shape no matter the conditions - cold/wet, hot/dry, they never miss a beat.
Some fwy expansions on the South have greatly enhanced playability.
The North is a very under-rated course and will be even better after a tee and bunker reno starting in August.
Will be happy to post pics. Remember though, my bad tech skills

[Mark Saltzman]

John, when were the fairway expansions on the South completed?

And, of course, welcome!

[John Percival]

The expansions are an in-house effort and are ongoing.
Just recently, the fwy on 15 was expanded left of the center bunkers by about 5 yards. Terrific as it now entices an aggressive play.
Also, the 11th fwy was widened so that balls kicking off a large fwy mound don't settle in the rough, but stay in the short grass, yet leave a semi-blind approach from a greater distance than those tee balls that carry past the mound. Again, a great improvement.

[Brent Carlson]

John,

I was fortunate to attend the Ryder Cup and PGA at Oakland Hills.  What stood out to me was the ideal rolling land and excellent greens, which if I understand correctly are nearly all original Ross.  The fall away 14th green is really good.  I wish that design were emulated more on long par 4s. 

Perhaps sometime you can share with us the original Ross bunkering on the South.  I've always been curious regarding the placement and aesthetic before the RTJ revision.  Once again welcome aboard.

Brent

[John Percival]

Brent,
How observant of u. Everyone knows about OH greens' slope and undulations. Few realize that the fwy contours create such a myriad of unusual lies that the player is constantly tested on approaches. When u combine the demanding greens/pin locations and the uneven lies, the permutations are endless. In fact, that is what makes 7 south such a standout. The successful tee ball that challenges the pond is rewarded with not only a superior angle on the approach, but also with a relatively level lie. Those shying away from the pond are left with a more difficult angle and a slice lie for a draw approach.
The green on 7 south is RTJ. It became necessary when 8 tee was moved back and to the right, making the Ross green dangerous.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Welcome aboard "Storm Boy" aka Mr. Percival

hope you enjoy it

Brett
Downunder

[John Percival]

John: Our own Cory Lewis just posted on Facebook that he's hitting Oakland Hills today! Maybe you'll run into him.

Welcome - what are your top 10 favourite courses?

Brian, sorry. Just noticed part two of ur  message.
Not to hedge, but the situation matters. So, how 'bout this...in no particular order...
   Riviera - Such a great track in a unique setting. Leave the clubhouse, walk down into it and don't return til 18 green. Very cool.
   Indianwood(Old) - Especially when the greens are slick. Some great holes and fantastic atmosphere.
   Rye - Loved the simplicity of the design and the greens (but NOT the clubhouse  )
   Maidstone - Yeah, it's short, but the routing through such different parcels and the nearby ocean make for enchantment
   Tokatee - In some no-wheresville spot in Oregon. Bit of a slow start, but a blast from #5 on and incredible trees
   OH(South) - Oh baby. When the greens are firm and fast, the teeth gnash, the knees quiver and it is awesome. Steve Cook has made it
                     much more playable with widened fwys and it is in GREAT shape.
   Bethlehem Muni (PA) - Haven't played in years, but it has the bones for greatness (#10!!) if the city would get out of the way.
   Sea Island (Fazio) - What a great reno. Solid design, great vistas, beautiful landscaping and wickered pins.
   TPC (Sawgrass) - You're always on edge w/ Pete and always adjusting. Actually liked the original better. Too bad the Tour felt otherwise.
                            Interestingly, think the 17th would be a great Bye Hole and wish something more creative was there, but it is different.
   Leave this last one blank...
Probably come up with 10 more overnight. The four keepers are Riv, OH, TPC and I-O.

[Jim Sherma]

John

I grew up on Bethlehem Municipal and always thought there was some good stuff there. The bunker work when they put grass faces on most of the greenside bunkers was sad although I had switched over to Green Pond for my regular game at that point.

Big Brawny William and David Gordon course. I always though 3,4,5 was a good stretch. The back nine is very strong and generally there is good interest in many of the greens. Playing high school golf there back in the early '80s it was a beast and played very long. From the tips it was very long for the era (7,000+ par 71 and lush).

When the Nike tour was at Center Valley Beth Muni was used for the qualifier and I heard that it was spoken more highly of than Center Valley.

[Andy Troeger]

Welcome, John. How long have you been a design consultant? Did you have any input on Angels Crossing--it was discussed quite a bit here in its early days. I am originally from South Bend, IN and played it a few times before moving to New Mexico. I think the only other Matthews design I have played is Beeches GC in South Haven.

[John Percival]

Welcome. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts on teaching,improvement and why some of us revert to bad habits.

Mike,
Have the proper time to respond to ur question...
...the short answer is that we r human.
One of the biggest reasons for reverting is comfort. If we try something new on the course, it may work short term ( a hole or three), but ultimately our body feels uncomfortable with the strange motion ( even if it is 'better') and it reverts back to long term muscle memory, ESPECIALLY if the player is in a pressure situation. We all have four swings: practice swing, range swing, course swing and course swing under pressure. Obviously the practice swing is the best mechanical motion and the ensuing swing qualities lessen. So, if one wants to improve their COURSE PLAY, then they must take lesson info and apply it repeatedly in the best manner possible. Not on the course, but thru practice swings and balls at the range. Only after voluminous amounts of this practice will the body be able to apply the new swing in battle.
Unfortunately, the assumption is that the player's practice will be productive. So many students professed a fear that their practice was going to be incorrect. I immediately put their mind at ease by telling them "it WILL be,". We are just hoping that the incorrect level will be less and long term memory will ultimately improve. However, most people do not have the time/patience for this task.
Another very important component of the improvement process is obtaining the correct swing advice FOR YOUR SWING. I don't give a damn about hogan, Nicklaus, tiger or any other great player's swing. Unless the student has the same physical and mental abilities and the same dedication to the practice process, they don't have a chance to imitate the greats. Better to identify what works with YOUR body, mind and swing. That's why I never taught a system. So, practice is great, but only with the proper info and in the improving (not perfect) form. And here's the most brutal part...it's gonna change as we age! As I always say, you never get the swing, you only borrow it.
Just a short note on the two biggest course problems - drivers and sand wedges. If the average player would leave the driver at home for one round, they would be amazed at how much simpler the golf course can be. The 'loss of distance' they think will happen will be a net gain of length and massively improved accuracy. And it is just brutal watching most players hit sand wedges. EVERY GOLFER SHOULD TAKE A SERIES, yes *******SERIES******* of lessons just with their sand wedge. So many times the well intended efforts to recover from mistakes only make the situation worse with poor mechanics, clumsy touch and foolish expectations. Keeping the swing simple, the expectations simple and play to the middle of the green. Once the player becomes proficient at that, then narrow the focus.
Now, if someone's round is more adventure motivated, then take the gambles. But when score counts, build a base and improve from there.

If you have specific questions on anything, please send them in. Love talking bout it.

[Ross Harmon]

Welcome John. Some good tips on your last post, they absolutely fit my game (or lack of).

[Scott DeBolt]

Welcome, and tell Bruce I said hello....  worked with him on several projects over the years...

[Joe Hancock]

Welcome, and tell Bruce I said hello....  worked with him on several projects over the years...

x2.....

[jeffwarne]

Welcome. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts on teaching,improvement and why some of us revert to bad habits.

Mike,
Have the proper time to respond to ur question...
...the short answer is that we r human.
One of the biggest reasons for reverting is comfort. If we try something new on the course, it may work short term ( a hole or three), but ultimately our body feels uncomfortable with the strange motion ( even if it is 'better') and it reverts back to long term muscle memory, ESPECIALLY if the player is in a pressure situation. We all have four swings: practice swing, range swing, course swing and course swing under pressure. Obviously the practice swing is the best mechanical motion and the ensuing swing qualities lessen. So, if one wants to improve their COURSE PLAY, then they must take lesson info and apply it repeatedly in the best manner possible. Not on the course, but thru practice swings and balls at the range. Only after voluminous amounts of this practice will the body be able to apply the new swing in battle.
Unfortunately, the assumption is that the player's practice will be productive. So many students professed a fear that their practice was going to be incorrect. I immediately put their mind at ease by telling them "it WILL be,". We are just hoping that the incorrect level will be less and long term memory will ultimately improve. However, most people do not have the time/patience for this task.
Another very important component of the improvement process is obtaining the correct swing advice FOR YOUR SWING. I don't give a damn about hogan, Nicklaus, tiger or any other great player's swing. Unless the student has the same physical and mental abilities and the same dedication to the practice process, they don't have a chance to imitate the greats. Better to identify what works with YOUR body, mind and swing. That's why I never taught a system. So, practice is great, but only with the proper info and in the improving (not perfect) form. And here's the most brutal part...it's gonna change as we age! As I always say, you never get the swing, you only borrow it.
Just a short note on the two biggest course problems - drivers and sand wedges. If the average player would leave the driver at home for one round, they would be amazed at how much simpler the golf course can be. The 'loss of distance' they think will happen will be a net gain of length and massively improved accuracy. And it is just brutal watching most players hit sand wedges. EVERY GOLFER SHOULD TAKE A SERIES, yes *******SERIES******* of lessons just with their sand wedge. So many times the well intended efforts to recover from mistakes only make the situation worse with poor mechanics, clumsy touch and foolish expectations. Keeping the swing simple, the expectations simple and play to the middle of the green. Once the player becomes proficient at that, then narrow the focus.
Now, if someone's round is more adventure motivated, then take the gambles. But when score counts, build a base and improve from there.

If you have specific questions on anything, please send them in. Love talking bout it.

+1

[mike_beene]

Thanks for a well stated answer.Every time I play in a tournament I experience what you describe,and learn something about what needs work.Golfers of all levels are to a fault copycats.One guy I know had his life changed at least twice: first by the one plane swing and then by stack and tilt.Not sure what life changing swing he is trying now.Seems like there is a guru under every rock. You sound like a true teacher as opposed to someone who confidently sticks to some method and ruins more than they help.That said I have been putting with a Seemore so Some methods seem to work for me

[John Percival]

Thanks for a well stated answer.Every time I play in a tournament I experience what you describe,and learn something about what needs work.Golfers of all levels are to a fault copycats.One guy I know had his life changed at least twice: first by the one plane swing and then by stack and tilt.Not sure what life changing swing he is trying now.Seems like there is a guru under every rock. You sound like a true teacher as opposed to someone who confidently sticks to some method and ruins more than they help.That said I have been putting with a Seemore so Some methods seem to work for me

M,
WAS a true teacher. Retired from the ranks, but still love the talk.

The neat thing about ALL advice is this....everything is correct. The question is.........is it correct for you?!
And...
...every swing works. It's simply a matter of frequency.
A final thought - the success of your round is determined by where your BAD swings go.

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