Can "anyone" design a golf course ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think they can.

The second question is, given the property, what would the quality of that golf course be ?

The third question is, if they spent 2 to 3 years on the project, as some of the ODG's did, would their fine tuning improve the quality of the course, and by how much.

There seemed to be certain givens espoused by Ross and others.

Certain basics that would get a novice started in the right direction.

Site the clubhouse at the perimeter at one of the higher points.
Don't have the 1st hole heading East
Don't have the 18th hole heading West
Have the practice area run North-South
Have two loops for each nine, one  clockwise, one counter clockwise

What  would be an interesting exercise for those on GCA.com would be for someone skilled in posting graphics to post a topo of a property and a 3-D rendering of the property, such that everyone could design their own course on the template/s provided, inclusive of the clubhouse.

If anyone has that capability could you please start a thread providing the topo and the 3-D computer graphic such that each participant wanting to design a course could do so.

Participants could work on drafts and ONLY submit their final rendering on a certain date in the future.
That way others couldn't borrow your ideas.

We'd have a "design your own course" on the same piece of property contest.

Your thoughts ?


Thanks

[Brian Finn]

It's a really good idea.  Seems very similar to the 'Armchair Architects Contest' that has been held in recent years.  Below are links to the threads from AAC III, which I think was really interesting and fun to follow.  Perhaps one of the actual participants could weigh in with more detail.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54758.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54888.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55174.0.html

[PCCraig]

Of course "anyone" can design a golf course. I can think of a couple professional golf course architects who can't even come close to building something resembling a golf course.

[Bill_McBride]

Does every course have to have the Muirfield routing?

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat,

I actually met and spent time with someone who believed anyone could design a golf course. He inherited about $20 million and purchased a decent, though not great piece of land.

Some locals in the area (Cleveland) actually think the course he built is pretty good, but GCA types aren't likely to agree. Indeed, the only reason I would recommend a visit is to see how bad parts of a course can turn out if the person really doesn't know what he is doing.

Personally, I would much prefer to sponsor creating a course than trying to play architect myself.

[JC Jones]

Some of the greatest courses in the US were designed by non-architects.

[Tim_Weiman]

JC Jones,

Does that mean "anyone" can design a golf course?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Did Jerry Rich design "Rich Harvest Farms" by himself ?

[Alex Miller]

It's a really good idea.  Seems very similar to the 'Armchair Architects Contest' that has been held in recent years.  Below are links to the threads from AAC III, which I think was really interesting and fun to follow.  Perhaps one of the actual participants could weigh in with more detail.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54758.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54888.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55174.0.html

I think most of us armchair guys would require a great deal of help and experience from others if we did attempt to do such a thing. But, yes, I do think it is possible. And I even think we'd collectively produce some pretty good courses! But probably not of the quality that would be worthy of any sort of design fee. 

[JC Jones]

JC Jones,

Does that mean "anyone" can design a golf course?

Can "anyone" do anything?

[Greg Chambers]

If you think anyone can design a golf course, then you're a moron.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Brian
Were you being kind?
And then poking fun of Pat for suggesting something that has been going on for years and will again.

Sorry Brian - this was meant for PAT not you ---->>>
I guess if you think it only takes a few minutes to host a golf design contest, then probably anyone can design a golf course.

Pat,
Of your 5 rules I broke 4 of them.
Am I an anyone?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
Of your 5 rules I broke 4 of them.
Am I an anyone?



Those weren't my rules, they were what Donald Ross stated.

You'll have to take your transgressions up with him.

[Tim_Weiman]

JC:

Perhaps I should have responded differently to you comment about some of America's greatest courses being designed by non architects.

Yes, we know there is some truth to that, e.g, Neville & Grant at Pebble Beach, George Crump at Pine Valley, Hugh Wilson at Merion, etc.

But, I am not sure one should read too much into those situations. Perhaps a non architect could do something really cool, but there is a higher probability the final product isn't that great.

[RJ_Daley]

I'd lean towards the idea of 'anyone' ---- with some qualifiers.

Te qualifiers would be:

1.  Anyone with a fair amount of intelligence.
2.  Anyone with a great amount of passion for the endeavor of creating a great golf course.
3.  Anyone wth access to financial resources to purchase land, labor, and the machinery costs to do the job.
4.  Anyone with the dedication and perserverance to stick with the project as long as it takes.
5.  Anyone with the foresight to take the time to study, both successful projects that came before, and study a reasonable amount of material available to learn the issues of construction technique and turf characteristics and maintenance.
6.  Anyone that understands the nuances of the game - not necessarily a great player, but one that knows what it takes to execute playing the game well.
7.  Anyone that is willing to take risks.


Combine those characteristics, and anyone can do it!   

[Ally Mcintosh]

This website generally talks about ideals and concepts. Aside from the people involved in designing / constructing / building / greenkeeping, it tends to ignore the technical elements of the profession / discipline which - depending on site and team - are the vast majority of the job.

Like any profession, anyone can do it with enough study and practical experience... And like any profession or art, they also have to have an aptitude for telling what works and what doesn't.

And like anything, you are always learning as you go along...

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Pat:

I think anyone can design a course, but it might end up looking like a moron designed it.

If the "designer" was really interested in golf course architecture and not just a potato famer that decided there was more money in golf than potatoes (what a fool he'd be), I'd say yes it's possible. If he/she continued to tweak and re-design it, it could turn out quite well, perhaps even a masterpiece.

I have played a course (Bright Castle in Co. Down) in Ireland that was designed by a farmer by the name of Arnold Ennis. He was quite a good golfer (HCAP around 1 or 2) I believe, and his own golfing ability evidently had a big influence on his design. The first four hole start off 550 yds, 560 yds, 475 yds and 440 yds. There's even a par 6 on the back nine measuring 735 yards. I haven't been back in over 20 years, but perhaps he's been improving it bit by bit, year by year.

[Terry Lavin]

Based on tournament golf, anybody can redesign a golf course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Did Jerry Rich design "Rich Harvest Farms" by himself ?  ?  ?

[PCCraig]

Did Jerry Rich design "Rich Harvest Farms" by himself ?  ?  ?

No.

[SL_Solow]

Pat;  How do you define "design"?  Is it merely the routing, placement of hazards and general design of features?   Does compliance with regulations including environmental laws count?  How about plotting drainage?  Where does shaping fit in?  Moreover, I assume your question leaves out the unsaid qualifier that the course design must be a "good" design.  Otherwise, anyone with enough money and time can design a golf course.

[Brian Finn]

Brian
Were you being kind? 

YES

And then poking fun of Pat for suggesting something that has been going on for years and will again. 

SORT OF.

I guess if you think it only takes a few minutes to host a golf design contest, then probably anyone can design a golf course. 

NOT EVEN CLOSE.  I WAS ONLY ANSWERING THE PORTION OF THE QUESTION RELATED TO THE CONTEST.  I TRIED TO GET STARTED IN AAC III AND COULD NOT EVEN COME UP WITH A ROUTING.  I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHERE TO START, AND THAT WAS JUST ON PAPER (IMAGINE SENDING ME OUT TO A POTENTIAL SITE). 

MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT CAN DESIGN A GOOD GOLF COURSE.  I DON'T TRULY KNOW, BUT IMAGINE IT TAKES A UNIQUE COMBINATION OF STUDY, LEARNING, TRIAL & ERROR, TIME, ENERGY, EFFORT, ETC.  I CONSIDER IT A RATHER UNCOMMON SKILL SET. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Did Jerry Rich design "Rich Harvest Farms" by himself ?  ?  ?

No.

Who helped him, and to what degree ?

[PCCraig]

Did Jerry Rich design "Rich Harvest Farms" by himself ?  ?  ?

No.

Who helped him, and to what degree ?

Michael Benkusky. Not enough.

[William_G]

yes

the quality of the design is a different question