Restoration Timeline: Philly Cricket's Wissahickon course (Tillinghast / Foster)

[Powell Arms]

#10 green has moved just a couple of paces off of the fenceline from its old location.



Director of Golf Jim Smith testing approach shots and angles on #2 with the two of our female golfers.  An impressive amount of thought and detailing has gone into the work to be sure that the course is playable and challenging for shorter and longer hitters.

[Powell Arms]

Keith Foster supervising the grading of the new back tee on #1, which is part of the new practice putting green.  



The road along the patio will be demolished and the patio extended, roughly to the extent of the old road.  The practice putting green will be behind the members tee for #1, with the championship tee situated between 1 & 18.  As Mark said, you will hear the silence on the deck as you tee off.

[Mark McKeever]

A couple new looks at hole 3, the short par 3.   

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

In the last two pics, those bunkers on the right seem removed from the putting surface.  are they part of this hole?  what's in between them and the green?  why the separation... what's the design theory with that?  Just curious.

[Mark McKeever]

Wayne, that was one of my first thoughts as well, and maybe Powell can help answer.  My thought...may be to protect a forward tee on 10?

Mark

[Powell Arms]

Wayne, Mark is partially correct.  The secondary purpose of the bunkers that are off of the green front right are there to protect 10 tee as much as possible. They are original to the Tillinghast design and the primary purpose was to give the dueling par 3's, #3 and #10, a distinct presence from each other, and those bunkers help accomplish that.

It's basically the bunkers right of the equipment in this photo.  



And shown here in a 1938 aerial:



It now has visual separation from 10 tee (right and long, about 140 yards on a hole playing 100-110) and extra protection is prudent because right will be a popular miss with the drop off left being closer to the green.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Wayne, Mark is partially correct.  The secondary purpose of the bunkers that are off of the green front right are there to protect 10 tee as much as possible. They are original to the Tillinghast design and the primary purpose was to give the dueling par 3's, #3 and #10, a distinct presence from each other, and those bunkers help accomplish that.

It's basically the bunkers right of the equipment in this photo.  

And shown here in a 1938 aerial:

It now has visual separation from 10 tee (right and long, about 140 yards on a hole playing 100-110) and extra protection is prudent because right will be a popular miss with the drop off left being closer to the green.

Powell, thanks.  That's an interesting feature.  How will the turf in between the green and bunkers be maintained... at fairway height or as rough?  Will balls that just miss the green bounce and roll into that bunker or is there enough space in between that they'll collect in the valley?  it looks like those that do end-up in that bunker will certainly have an interesting shot!

[Powell Arms]

Wayne, Mark is partially correct.  The secondary purpose of the bunkers that are off of the green front right are there to protect 10 tee as much as possible. They are original to the Tillinghast design and the primary purpose was to give the dueling par 3's, #3 and #10, a distinct presence from each other, and those bunkers help accomplish that.

It's basically the bunkers right of the equipment in this photo.  

And shown here in a 1938 aerial:

It now has visual separation from 10 tee (right and long, about 140 yards on a hole playing 100-110) and extra protection is prudent because right will be a popular miss with the drop off left being closer to the green.

Powell, thanks.  That's an interesting feature.  How will the turf in between the green and bunkers be maintained... at fairway height or as rough?  Will balls that just miss the green bounce and roll into that bunker or is there enough space in between that they'll collect in the valley?  it looks like those that do end-up in that bunker will certainly have an interesting shot!

Wayne, we have a good amount of flexibility there to add some teeth to the course if we wish.  Right now, the grass height there is "to be determined". We will certainly have the ability to make it closely mown. None of the green will have collars, so we'll evaluate and make sure it isn't too severe a penalty for everyday play. Grass heights can obviously change for tournament play.  An interesting case where lower heights add difficulty.

That option of different mowing heights also exists with the surrounds of many of the fairway bunkers. The bunkers are surrounded with fescue, which can be cut to fairway height should we wish to enlarge their effective gathering areas.  The generaly thought now is that the fescue will be longer away from the line of play.

[Brian Colbert]

This begs the question... in their current states, would you rather be playing at Liberty National or Wissahickon today?

[Powell Arms]

This begs the question... in their current states, would you rather be playing at Liberty National or Wissahickon today?

What are you referring to as "this"?

[Brian Colbert]

This begs the question... in their current states, would you rather be playing at Liberty National or Wissahickon today?

What are you referring to as "this"?

I was implying that based on the overwhelmingly negative feedback this board has had on this week's Barclays venue and the overwhelmingly positive feedback this board has had for the restoration, it appears Wissahickon with half the holes still covered in dirt are about as interesting to play as Liberty National in tournament conditions.

Tongue in cheek, of course.

[Powell Arms]

Brian, I thought that's what you meant. As a tease, perhaps to personally torment mckeever, they have put flagsticks in on the completed holes.

#2 green may have had a few too many people inside the ropes yesterday to be playable.

[Steve Lapper]

Powell,

    The work looks terrific and I'm anxious to get down there next year and see it.

    I was fortunate enough to have a great visit with some of the board members of Sands Point GC earlier this week and they are rightfully proud of their recent Keith Foster renovation of their AWT design. Very nice work.


    Good luck and congrats on everything so far!

   Cheers!

[Powell Arms]

Thanks, Steve.

1 and 18 look a little congested today, Brian

[Mark McKeever]

That bunker on 2 looks nice and deep.  I like it.   

[Mark McKeever]

A couple of updated looks.  First a the new look from behind hole 8 and headed up the 9th.  (note the lack of a collar on 8 )

[Mark McKeever]

A couple of photos from in front of the green on the par 3 10th hole.

[Charlie Gallagher]

   Haven't checked in for a while. Looks like the work is progressing very nicely. Powell, what is the composition of the soil the course sits on? I know damn little about the geology of eastern PA. I ask the question because I would like to know what Keith had to consider regarding drainage in the renovation/restoration master plan.
   I believe I played the course on June 7 after the deluge of the 6th where more than 4 inches of rain fell in the Philadelphia area. It rained hard enough that day for there to be standing water in the fairways at Hidden Creek, a course constructed on sand.  Philadelphia Cricket was wet, and the stream was barely back in its banks, but the course was playable and it was not casual water everywhere, or really, anywhere, except near the creek. After 4 inches of rain in NH, our courses would have been soggy, with lots of casual water.
Keith must know the soil profile and I would be interested in it's composition.
Thank you again for your earnest reporting on the project. I can't wait to actually test it out, assuming McKeever will  have me back.

[Charlie Gallagher]

   Haven't checked in for a while. Looks like the work is progressing very nicely. Powell, what is the composition of the soil the course sits on? I know damn little about the geology of eastern PA. I ask the question because I would like to know what Keith had to consider regarding drainage in the renovation/restoration master plan.
   I believe I played the course on June 7 after the deluge of the 6th where more than 4 inches of rain fell in the Philadelphia area. It rained hard enough that day for there to be standing water in the fairways at Hidden Creek, a course constructed on sand.  Philadelphia Cricket was wet, and the stream was barely back in its banks, but the course was playable and it was not casual water everywhere, or really, anywhere, except near the creek. After 4 inches of rain in
Keith must know the s oil profile and I would be interested in it's composition..

[Powell Arms]

  Haven't checked in for a while. Looks like the work is progressing very nicely. Powell, what is the composition of the soil the course sits on? I know damn little about the geology of eastern PA. I ask the question because I would like to know what Keith had to consider regarding drainage in the renovation/restoration master plan.
   I believe I played the course on June 7 after the deluge of the 6th where more than 4 inches of rain fell in the Philadelphia area. It rained hard enough that day for there to be standing water in the fairways at Hidden Creek, a course constructed on sand.  Philadelphia Cricket was wet, and the stream was barely back in its banks, but the course was playable and it was not casual water everywhere, or really, anywhere, except near the creek. After 4 inches of rain in
Keith must know the s oil profile and I would be interested in it's composition..

Charlie, the course generally sits on loam subsoil.  It obviously drains very well.  As I imagine you saw, the bunkers were original from 1922 and had no drainage.  That has been installed as part of the restoration, along with drainage for tee boxes and greensites.  We have encountered very little rock in our limited excavation.

[Powell Arms]

A couple of folks have asked offline about the statement that there will not be collars on the restored greens.  

There is an aesthetic reason and a practical reason.  The aesthetic reason is that overall, we want a more natural look. Not checked mowing patterns, no built up tees, simple green cuts.

The practical is greens that are 20-25 percent larger with substantially more hole locations.  The 8th green is 113 paces in diameter.  At 3 feet of collar, that is about 1,000 sf and our greens average 6,000 sf.  When you need to be a couple of paces from the edge of collar to place a cup, and end up losing what would be neat hole locations because they are now too close to the edge of green (collar). This is a somewhat new way of thinking and it may result in some atypical shots to Cricket.  Those rare shots aren't a concern when weighed against the substantial increase in hole locations, (even with the restored greens, which are 25% larger than the ones pre-restoration).

[Jim Sherma]

A couple of folks have asked offline about the statement that there will not be collars on the restored greens.  

There is an aesthetic reason and a practical reason.  The aesthetic reason is that overall, we want a more natural look. Not checked mowing patterns, no built up tees, simple green cuts.

The practical is greens that are 20-25 percent larger with substantially more hole locations.  The 8th green is 113 paces in diameter.  At 3 feet of collar, that is about 1,000 sf and our greens average 6,000 sf.  When you need to be a couple of paces from the edge of collar to place a cup, and end up losing what would be neat hole locations because they are now too close to the edge of green (collar). This is a somewhat new way of thinking and it may result in some atypical shots to Cricket.  Those rare shots aren't a concern when weighed against the substantial increase in hole locations, (even with the restored greens, which are 25% larger than the ones pre-restoration).

I'll have to take a wait and see approach on this. Given the speed that the greens are likely to be kept I can see some potential issues with a roll-off part of the green that runs right into heavy rough. How high will the grass at the green to rough transition be? If the rough is high and or thick bladed I could easily see a day full of being on the green but up against rough being very trying.

Also, what types of shots are expected from these lies. If you can't get cleanly to the back of the ball with a putter or hybrid type of club won't people be trying to hit chips with a downward striking blow. This would seemingly chew up the edges of the greens if divots are taken.

I've seen this at a couple of mom and pop publics (Deer Valley out here in central PA for one) and I did not think it worked real well. I'm sure this was thought out by people with more experience than me but I'll have to see it in action before I'm convinced.

[Powell Arms]

Jim,  time will tell. We have done a lot of thinking about this, and have spoken with folks outside of the club and design team, and right now think the substantial increase in green size and cupable locations is worth it. The rough will be cut with this in mind.

You're right, it could be a long day if one is sculling shots that day. Practice your bellied wedge putt.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Powell and Mark,

WOW!

I have been out of the loop this past month and hardly looking at GCA. I am astounded at the improvements at Cricket. This is huge!

Powell, I'm going to push for next years ULC vs ULC match to come to Flourtown.

Best,

Malcolm

[Mark McKeever]

Charlie, you're welcome anytime.  Any maybe even Sheehan again..

As one who commonly plays the bellied wedge shot when up against the rough, I am excited to see this feature come into the greens at Wissahickon.  Hopefully we dont have many people trying to hit down on those shots.


Mark