Was Ben Hogan considered long in his day?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Not sure if it was Bayer who was the long, but wild hitter famous in the 50's but recall sitting with Colbert, Player, and a few others at the 1983 LV Pro Am and discussing one of his tee shots at the San Antonio Open in the early 60's.  It seems they were in the locker room, and someone came in with word that Bayer (if it was him) went OB on the fifth hole, which was funny to them, because it was the middle of three holes, so any OB would have had to travel across another fw to get there.

Then, they really cracked up (in the 60's locker room) when someone asked "which side?" because while most wild hitters (such as an early Hogan) would miss big, it was always to the same side, but in this case, they knew he was prone to missing wildly in almost any direction.  All the pros present really cracked up again retelling that story in the 1983 locker room, too.

[Charlie Gallagher]

Hogan was both long and straight and had the ability to summon up different shot shapes at will, though he prefered a cut. Of that peer group, Sneed was longer than either Hogan or Nelson, and could shape shots with alacrity. My sources include books previously mentioned by other posters, Challenge and All Star golf, Shells Wonderfull World of Golf,  (Sneed vs Nicklaus in 1962 is amazing to watch from both a competition and architectural perspective.) and eyewitness accounts from other professionals who saw both Hogan, Sneed, and other of their contemprary players. Hogan may have been smaller in stature, but he had large forearms and hands for his size. He liked his irons 4 degrees flat, which tells me he may have had longer arms than the average man of his height.
   Dodson's book provides evidence that Hogan stopped aiming at the hole on approaches in either late 1939 or early 1940, due to the fact he was hitting the stick often enough and  suffering  bad bounces that were hurting his scoring. He only had a few holes in one in his career, probably due to his tendency to aim away and find a good spot for a birdie putt.

[David_Tepper]

Pat M. -

Whether Hogan was longer than Snead (probably not) or Nelson (probably) is irrelevant to the question Jim Franklin has asked.

You can be "long" without being the "longest." The #20 guy on the Driving Distance stats may not be the longest, but he is still plenty long.

DT

[Pat Burke]

Wish I could remember the book, but remember Byron Nelson saying that
Ben would hit his driver longer than him, but on holes where they
both hit fairway woods, Byron would catch back up to Ben.  Byron explained
it was because Ben hit down through the ball with fairway woods, while he was a sweeper.

I'll try to find the quote

[Sam Morrow]

Bayer didn't even turn pro until 54

[SL_Solow]

There was more than 1 Hogan.  the early Hogan, who featured a long swing and more often drew the ball was very long.  as he changed his game to gain control and favored a fade (which many of his contemporaries called a dinky cut) he gave up distance.  He generally could summon it when needed but he clearly  sacrificed length for control.

As for Merion, we may forget that he was playing the last of 36 holes not long after recovering from the bus accident.  undoubtedly he was tired and likely hitting it shorter than usual.

Finally Hogan was still competitive when Bayer came along.  as for contemporaries, Jimmy Thompson, Snead, Lawson Little and Crai Wood were acknowledged bombers long before Bayer.

[Nigel Islam]

Wasnt Faldo faily long until he changed his swing as well?

[Sean_A]

Was Ben Hogan considered long in his day?

Yes, Hogan was considered fairly long in his day.  Can we move on with the discussion, if there is going to be a discussion?  Don't let Mucci sidetrack yet another thread with petty nonsense - move on.

Ciao

[Jason Thurman]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Nigel Islam]

That looks like an awfully heavy hickory shaft Moses has in that hybrid! 

[Garland Bayley]

I caught a few minutes of Nicklaus and Watson's Shell Wonderful World of Golf match at Pebble in 1994 before work this morning. Jack hit a 1 iron into the 9th hole from about 223 yards. He would have been, what, 55 then? Just FYI. It was an impressive shot. I wish hybrids had never been invented. I don't see why they shouldn't be banned.

Hybrids have been with the game for a long, long time. When the game started all clubs were custom made. So if you read about a cut down cleek, and it happened to refer to what we might think of as a 4 wood, then it very well could have been a 19 degree hybrid. Marketing just invented new terms to sell us more clubs, that's all.

[Joe Bausch]

Not sure this answers whether Hogan was considered a big-hitter, but it might help:  below are annotated aerials from the Evening Bulletin of the shots from the playoff 4th round at Merion in 1950:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/1950_4thround_shots/

[Patrick_Mucci]

Was Ben Hogan considered long in his day?

Yes, Hogan was considered fairly long in his day.  Can we move on with the discussion, if there is going to be a discussion? 

Don't let Mucci sidetrack yet another thread with petty nonsense - move on.

You know Sean, you really are a know nothing moron.

This thread is ABOUT Hogan's length.

I engaged in and stuck to the topic.  How is engaging, specificallly in the topic, sidetracking it ?

Or do you now want to repeat your moronic allegation, without ever having set foot on the golf course, about Mountain Ridge's fairway lines ?

[Carson Pilcher]

I'll take as read that the distances between Hogan's day and today are not in any way comparable. And I'll stipulate that Hogan's 1-iron is a more demanding club to strike perfectly than Rose's 4-iron.

Given all that, I was not alive in 1950 to recall what was the end result of Hogan's approach shot. Just that specific approach, no matter what club was used or how long a shot was required to reach that point in the fairway.

Hogan's 1-iron loft = 17 degrees
Rose's 4-iron loft = 19 degrees.

I once read that the pin was on the right side of the green.  Hogan hit it 30' left of the pin and then two putted.

Here is Jackie Burke explaining how he watched it and recounts the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtRr9_1sUao

[JESII]

Carson,

You 100% sure Rose's 4 iron is 19*?

[Joe Perches]

You 100% sure Rose's 4 iron is 19*?

Maybe not.

What's in his bag:
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/tours-and-news/golfnews/531490/justin-rose-what-s-in-the-bag.html

TaylorMade's RocketBladez tour 4iron is generally 22
http://taylormadegolf.com/taylormade/rocketbladez-tour-irons/DW-JN938.html

[JESII]

Thanks Joe...I'd bet his lofts are weaker than the 22* 4iron specs. That would leave 6* gaps from 4 iron to wedge.

EDIT 5* gap...still pretty big.

[Charlie Gallagher]

Joe,
    Thanks for posting the aerials of the three golfers shots who played off in 1950. I didn't know such information existed. Could you give some detail about how those images were assembled? Totally remarkable to see the course as it existed in 1950. Even more to see where each contestant hit drives and approaches.
   One caveat, Hogan was about 16 months into his recovery from the bus accident and his strength had not returned to its pre accident level. For the rest of his life Hogan had to deal with pain in his legs due to restricted circulation as a result of his vascular surgeon's solution to a migrating blood clot that was tied off by blocking a major vein. Hogan's stamina was permanently damaged, but I believe he was able to regain most of his distance over time.
   Thank you again for publishing those historic photographic images. I am stunned by the resources of so many who contribute to the volume of knowledge found here at Golf Club Atlas.

[Carson Pilcher]

You 100% sure Rose's 4 iron is 19*?

Maybe not.

What's in his bag:
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/tours-and-news/golfnews/531490/justin-rose-what-s-in-the-bag.html

TaylorMade's RocketBladez tour 4iron is generally 22
http://taylormadegolf.com/taylormade/rocketbladez-tour-irons/DW-JN938.html

My apologies.  I must have read the 3 iron loft instead of the 4. 

[Garland Bayley]

You 100% sure Rose's 4 iron is 19*?

Maybe not.

What's in his bag:
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/tours-and-news/golfnews/531490/justin-rose-what-s-in-the-bag.html

TaylorMade's RocketBladez tour 4iron is generally 22
http://taylormadegolf.com/taylormade/rocketbladez-tour-irons/DW-JN938.html

My apologies.  I must have read the 3 iron loft instead of the 4. 

That's OK, because Hogan always said he hit 2 iron instead of 1 iron. As we know, Merion has a little trouble getting history right.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Not sure this answers whether Hogan was considered a big-hitter, but it might help:  below are annotated aerials from the Evening Bulletin of the shots from the playoff 4th round at Merion in 1950:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/1950_4thround_shots/



Joe,

You always find interesting photos and articles.

Maybe the title of this thread should be: "Was Fazio considered long in his day ?"

Because he consistently outdrove Hogan,  and by considerable margins

Thanks for the photographic evidence

[Garland Bayley]

To believe those photos you have to believe that Fazio hit a 175 yard drive on #4 followed by a 375 yard second shot.

Nothing but a quaint bit of antiquity.

[Patrick_Mucci]

To believe those photos you have to believe that Fazio hit a 175 yard drive on #4 followed by a 375 yard second shot.

Nothing but a quaint bit of antiquity.

Garland,

Is it your stated opinion that Hogan was longer than Fazio ?

Or, that Fazio was longer than Hogan ?

Which is it ?

[George_Bahto]

I was fortunate to see Ben play in person.

I saw Snead play also.

Hogan certainly could be considered longer than most on tour but Sam was longer.    (iMHO). Bauer was crazy long but, wow, wild.

On the practice tee I watched Hogan hitting 6-irons. After about 10 balls I left.       It began pointless.  Every ball had the same shape and trajectory. It was astounding.  I think it was at Winged Foot.  He hit about every green in regulation but 3-putted , like, four or five holes.

It was near the end of his great career. it was sad to see. Tee to green he was incredible, even then.

It may have been the year Casper won at WFW.    Not sure

[Charlie Gallagher]

If one watches the "Challenge Golf" or "All Star Golf" reruns you will see that Sam Snead was extremely long well into his 50's. By extremely long I mean drives with a steel shafted persimmon driver in excess of 300 yards. Every now and then in a round a drive of this length might be uncorked. It was not the ussual distance, but was achieved fairly regularly. Herbert Wind saw Snead hit a driver into the center of the old driving range net at Augusta National well after his 70th birthday. That net was 270 yards from the tee.

It would be fascinating to see what Samuel Jackson could do with an Oban shaft and a 460 cc titanium driver head. He was a superb athlete and had an enormous amount of rotary action in his swing