Is the 11th Merions' worst hole?

[Ran Morrissett]

Yes, it's all relative (!) but I know the worst hole couldn't possibly be 2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,13,14,15,16,17,or 18.

That leaves 1,8,11, and 12. Personally, I have always liked 1 and 8 despite what a smart friend notes (the driving area widens at one the farther you hit it and the 8th features a 'catcher's mitt' green).

In my book, that leaves 11 and 12. I really like the diagonal drive at 12 BUT I haven't hit to the new green. The prior one was loaded with character. Comparatively, the blind drive off the 11th tee to a narrow fairway holds little strategic value IMO. Its green is probably the least interesting on the course though some will contend that a flat green causes its own challenges.

So ... if you want to know how good Merion is ... and you want to get a sense of it versus all others ... ask yourself what other course's worst hole would be 11th at Merion.

Impressive.

Best,

[Ed Brzezowski]

Well stated.

[Bill Brightly]

It is a great question, because there are no weak holes. But I like 8 and 11 better than 7 and 12.

I don't really understand why Ran thinks the blindness of the tee shot on 11 is not strategic. I think it adds a lot to the hole. You KNOW you have to be in the fairway to play to the pin, but the blindness adds an element of doubt as to exactly where the fairway might be. I also like the back left pin position on Hole 11, you really need to have guts to go at that little section of the green. And the creek is so charming, it is one of my favorite views in golf, one that I think of when I think of Merion.

I dont remember anything inspiring about the tee shot on Hole 7.

Hole 12 is just not the same. The fear of a ball spinning 30-40 back down the fairway is gone.

[Tim Martin]

I agree that there are no weak holes but for me it could be 1. An exercise in hitting the fairway and the correct tier of the green and not all that strategic because of the shortish nature of the hole and no one hits driver here. 11 is a little dicier with the creek in play.

[David_Elvins]

Ran,

You make a good point about the evenness of holes at Merion.  But I think 13 deserves to be in the mix when discussing the worst holes. 

In three rounds of the US Open there has been one score worse than bogey.  I think a really good short par 3 should have some tougher recovery shots than that, that tempt players to be too aggressive on their recovery shots, bringing big numbers into play.

Bill,

7 has to have one of the coolest contoured greens in golf, doesn't it? 

[Bill_McBride]

Does every course have to have a WORST hole?

[Bill Brightly]

Ran,

You make a good point about the evenness of holes at Merion.  But I think 13 deserves to be in the mix when discussing the worst holes. 

In three rounds of the US Open there has been one score worse than bogey.  I think a really good short par 3 should have some tougher recovery shots than that, that tempt players to be too aggressive on their recovery shots, bringing big numbers into play.

Bill,

7 has to have one of the coolest contoured greens in golf, doesn't it? 

Yeah, I guess you are right. I also love the way the green blends into the 8th tee.

[DMoriarty]

For what it is worth, when the 11th hole first opened it was was criticized by at least some in the membership.  The complaints were focused on the creek; two strokes was considered to be too severe a penalty for such an exacting shot; the creek was thought to create too many confusing rulings on the drop; and the creek was thought to be prone to flooding, thus putting the hole out of play and making it expensive to repeatedly fix and maintain.  This last complaint would perhaps have seemed a bit more pertinent last week.   

Personally, I think it a good hole but it seems like it might fit in least well with the character of the rest of the course.

[Dan Herrmann]

Does every course have to have a WORST hole?

Yep.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Does every course have to have a WORST hole?

Yep.

Hell  French Creek has two. 

[Ran Morrissett]

Bill B,

I have played Merion less than 10 times so I defer but are there any playing angles involved re: the 11th hole?

For instance, if the hole is back left, does one really try and find the (invisible) right side of the narrow fairway? And if it is right, does one honestly try and do anything other than hit the hidden fairway?  

Also, as an amateur who likes to carry his own bag, does one even know where the day's hole location is prior to teeing off? Is the front left location visible from the tee? I don't recall. Tournament golf and caddies with pin sheets change that but that's not the world in which my golf game is most comfortable  .

Best,

[Bart Bradley]

Bill B,

I have played Merion less than 10 times so I defer but are there any playing angles involved re: the 11th hole?

For instance, if the hole is back left, does one really try and find the (invisible) right side of the narrow fairway? And if it is right, does one honestly try and do anything other than hit the hidden fairway?  

Also, as an amateur who likes to carry his own bag, does one even know where the day's hole location is prior to teeing off? Is the front left location visible from the tee? I don't recall. Tournament golf and caddies with pin sheets change that but that's not the world in which my golf game is most comfortable  .

Best,

I have only played Merion one time and made birdie on 11...By Ran's definition, surely 11 must be the weakest hole  .

Man would I love to go back there.  Wonderful holes, wonderful routing, wonderful greens.....now they just need a lot more mowers.

Bart

[Bill Brightly]

Ran,

I have only played it a handful of times, so there are far more posters here who can comment on a preferred angle. I think I give extra credit for partially blind tee shots because of the doubt raised in the players mind. As narrow as the 11th fairway is now, I think you are right, the goal is simply hit the fairway, not a side.

[John Kirk]

Hi Ran,

I agree, and had concluded that #11 was my least favorite hole, though it's kind of fun to see folks watching the action from their backyards.

[Wade Whitehead]

Again, a conversation that would only surface on GCA (and that's not necessarily a bad thing).

WW

[David_Elvins]

For instance, if the hole is back left, does one really try and find the (invisible) right side of the narrow fairway? And if it is right, does one honestly try and do anything other than hit the hidden fairway?  

Ran,

Could one not say that about almost every hole at Merion? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran,

I think you have to differentiate between # 11 as it was versus # 11 as it's configured for this year's Open.

As it's configured for this year's Open, you have a good case.

I always liked the opening hole.

The first tee and tee shot is in one of the most unique settings in golf.

If there was a criticism of the current set-up, could it be that three of the par 3's play similar ?

[DMoriarty]

If there was a criticism of the current set-up, could it be that three of the par 3's play similar ?

I think this is a very good point.   Originally, Merion had good balance between the par 3's.  By design they were all different distances, approx. 130, 160, 190, and 220.   Now except for the 13th, it seems they are more concerned with distance and resistance to scoring than maintaining variety.

That said, in the context of Ran's question it is hard to call any of the three longer par threes the weakest hole.  They are all very good holes.  But the course as a whole might be a bit better if Merion had maintained a bit more variety in their lengths. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Ran,

I think you have to differentiate between # 11 as it was versus # 11 as it's configured for this year's Open.

#11 has always been my favorite hole of the short 4's, as the second shot is just treacherous. Add in the history and it is hard to call it the worst hole. The drive has always been to just find the fairway at the bottom of the fairway, and I agree with Pat, that I need to play the "new" 11th fairway as the angle in looks totally different on TV. It looks great on an aerial but not sure on the ground.

But I think #13 is the weakest hole at Merion. The front bunker looks intimidating, but you normally get a good lie and that green is actually big for the distance of the hole.  It might be the last par of the day and it is a welcome break.

[John Kirk]

Although #10 is beautiful and strategic, it depends on having super deep rough to prevent players from playing directly at the green, which I perceive as a weakness.

[archie_struthers]

 


Not too many weak holes at Merion, but to me #1 is one of the coolest openers anywhere.  A little pressure to miss the people eating lunch on the tee shot and a nice opening to a wonder of a golf course.  Playing three from so,far back seems a little silly.  They could have placed the pins there in some tough spots, it has plenty .  It is fine from 185 to 200 and would have achieved some balance.

Of all the holes on the course I think 12 would be my choice as least favorite.

[DMoriarty]

Fascinating list of potential candidates so far.   Nos. 1, 8, 10, 11, 12, and 13?  Merion is a great course if these are the candidates for the worst hole!  

Interesting that none of them were part of the original layout.  No. 1 had the dogleg flipped in the late 1920s and the green apparently rebuilt then or shortly thereafter.  Eight had its green softened and moved to the right before the 1916 open (thus changing the strategic nature of the hole.)  Nos. 10, 11 and 12 changed 1923-24 because the old holes played over Ardmore.  No. 13 was originally a 130 yard beauty behind the clubhouse that was surrounded on three sides by Cobb's  Creek.

[Sean_A]

I would certainly take a different route here.  I think the weakest hole has to be one of the par 5s.  I would choose a 5 because as a set, its the weakest at Merion by quite a distance.  I don't think #s 2 or 4 really add much to the course.  Just because of the bunker/water redundancy, I would opt for #4.  If I were to choose a par 4, it would be #6, but that is mostly based on not wanting thinking that any of the short 4s should be selected as worst because these holes go a long way to making Merion that sort of course hackers can't get round on. 

Ciao

[Chip Gaskins]

I said that 11 was the worst hole at Merion 6-7 years ago on here and I thought Darth Vader was going to show up at my door....but then again, I am not Ran :-)

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would certainly take a different route here.  I think the weakest hole has to be one of the par 5s.  I would choose a 5 because as a set, its the weakest at Merion by quite a distance. 

By what criteria ?

I don't think #s 2 or 4 really add much to the course. 

How many times have you played them ?

Just because of the bunker/water redundancy, I would opt for #4.  If I were to choose a par 4, it would be #6, but that is mostly based on not wanting thinking that any of the short 4s should be selected as worst because these holes go a long way to making Merion that sort of course hackers can't get round on. 

Sean,

The fairway on # 4 has considerable slope to it and the green is well protected.

It's more difficult than the yardage and TV might indicate.

Ciao