[Ben Sims]

Three major champions at +15.  Two players under par.  Is anyone else willing to speak up and say "mea culpa bro!" As if to say, "my bad Merion, you're cool." 

Or is this a product of a tricked up setup?

[RJ_Daley]

Ben, how many shots are lost to par from missed par putts from 8-15ft VS shots lost to par from rough and bunkers around greens?  Mostly rough, it seems to me.  Fewer up and downs from rough around the greens and typical US Open recoveries from off FWs.  I'm going with "tricked up set-up" 

What do you think these guys would shoot for score on any typical mid summer firm and fast, but less rough as members usually find the course presented?  I'm guessing many more sub 66 rounds.  But, I still think that would be fun to watch, as well as the schlog it is under this presentation to protect par. 

I'd love to see this course played under their regular presentation, with a 10 club in the bag limit.  Can they impose that as a local tournament condition?  Maybe at the Masters - but not USGA?

[Brent Hutto]

Ive never heard any credible first-person reports of Merion being anything other than a wickedly tough course. With the rough as it is this week I'd have been gobsmacked to see scoring more than a couple strokes better than they are producing so far. Relative to par of 70 it seems as tough as any course needs to be. No surprise to me.

[Ben Sims]

RJ,

I'm happy that folks are getting their typical US Open experience.  However, I'm sad that many weak-boned folks in positions of power will probably use this Open as one of their many crappy excuses not to control technology.  In kind, it will also create a false perception by many that ball and club technology is not hurting golf architecture.  Com se com sa.  

Brent,

I have to believe that with normal 3 inch rough and wider fairways, this would be a different tournament.  But I do think these greens are really confusing the players.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Three major champions at +15.  Two players under par.  Is anyone else willing to speak up and say "mea culpa bro!" As if to say, "my bad Merion, you're cool." 

Or is this a product of a tricked up setup?

That's certainly a factor.

When have you ever seen PGA Tour Pros struggle with the rough, as they have at Merion

[Doug Ralston]

Three major champions at +15.  Two players under par.  Is anyone else willing to speak up and say "mea culpa bro!" As if to say, "my bad Merion, you're cool." 

Or is this a product of a tricked up setup?

That's certainly a factor.

When have you ever seen PGA Tour Pros struggle with the rough, as they have at Merion

I myself have had problems when the rough actually suspended the ball above the surface. I tend to hit under it and just pop it up. But watching Tiger's 2-inch chip was a revelation of sorts. It is actually somewhat comforting to see their fallibility in this struggle. And it is certainly nice to see another mostly driverless course test them.

Doug

[Matthew Rose]

They can't bomb and gouge it here. They have to think. They have to finesse the ball. It doesn't suit a lot of these guys to do so.

I'm enjoying the heck out of it.

[Mac Plumart]

I'm loving this.

The design is obviously very good. Great angles.  Great bunker placement.

And the set up is brutal.

Combining these two, these guys need to make smart decisions. I'm not seeing smart decisions.  Therefore, scores soar.

Very good stuff.

[jeffwarne]

Hard not to enjoy Merion.
Enjoy the greens a lot and course a lot.
As Ben said, let's not assume that high scores from a nasty setup mean technology shouldn't be reigned in.
Because if clubs are inspired to copy the setup we can change the expression from "While we're young", to "while we're alive"

[Bill Brightly]

The green complexes are great, perfect for challenging the pros.

But "tricked up" is the wrong word for what they what they did to the fairways and roughs. Materially changed is a better word. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE watching the pros play under these conditions. It is an appropriate set up for a US Open to challenge the pros. But it is amazing to me what the members of Merion went through for this to be possible. I am a good golfer but the set up was FAR above my ability when I played it last year. I think all golfers owe the members a BIG thank you.

[Jim_Kennedy]

No one playing or commentating seems to have a problem with the forced lay-up holes. That could be a very good thing, possibly encouraging others to see past overall yardage.    

[Mac Plumart]

Brad Klein's take...

http://t.golfweek.com/news/2013/jun/14/us-open-2013-merion-golf-club-kicking-back/

[Patrick_Mucci]

They can't bomb and gouge it here. They have to think. They have to finesse the ball. It doesn't suit a lot of these guys to do so.

Mathew,

I don't think they have to think that much and I don't think they have to finesse the ball.

It's strictly "target" golf.

Drive from point "A" to DZ "B" then approach to Point "C"

If you'll look at the tees on some/most of the par 4's, you'll see about the same amount of divots than you do on par 3's.

There appears to be a pattern to their play, which indicates that they get it.
They know how to play the course, they're just not prepared to handle the rough [/size]

I'm enjoying the heck out of it.

[Eric_Terhorst]

The green complexes are great, perfect for challenging the pros.

But "tricked up" is the wrong word for what they what they did to the fairways and roughs.

+1  This set-up isn't "tricked up".  It is set up for a US Open.  Narrow fairways and high rough should not come as a surprise. 

Mike Davis said on the Golf Channel tonight that the team works "years" on figuring out how to set up a course, working from the green back and trying to push the player response towards what the architect had in mind for each hole.  He also said he felt players demonstrated that the course set-up presented options--where some hit driver off the tee, others hit 5-iron.  Not target golf.

Mike Davis seems to have developed a team whose core competency is setting up courses for a traditional US Open challenge.  It's simply Monday-morning QB-ing to call it "tricked-up" or "target golf".  The set-up appears perfectly suited to the task at hand--creating great theater and identifying a fine champion.  The beauty and intrigue of Merion adds to the pleasure.

[jeffwarne]

Eric,
So when the setup team isolated and buried the bunkers well in the rough,and moved the fairways nearer to OB, that's "what the architect had in mind"?
Point well taken on no surprise as an Open setup, but anyone claiming to know what an architect had in mind is on a fool's errand.
Widen the fairways to offer preferred angles, and tempt players into hitting less 3,4 irons off the tees, and you would have a more interesting event, as well as testing a wider rane of playing skills.
Lower scores by the leaders perhaps, but on average probably the same scores with more disparity.
Of course that's all a nitpick as Merion looks very cool.

One thing's for sure though. They will identify the guy with the lowest score.

[Eric_Terhorst]

anyone claiming to know what an architect had in mind is on a fool's errand.

Jeff, 1499 members of golfclubatlas (leaving out you, apparently), would disagree 

[jeffwarne]

anyone claiming to know what an architect had in mind is on a fool's errand.

Jeff, 1499 members of golfclubatlas (leaving out you, apparently), would disagree 

No it's 1500, as I of course have my own opinions of what the architect had in mind at Merion

[Jim Nugent]

The stats are real interesting.  They suggest to me that keeping the ball out of the rough is neither sufficient nor necessary to score at Merion this week. 

Leader in fairways hit is J. Hicks, with 92.86%.  He only missed one fairway each day.  He also is among the GIR leaders, with 75%.  After two rounds he's 9 over, and projected to miss the cut. 

Others in the top 10 in fairways hit include Boo Weekley (currently sitting on the cut line)... B. Stuard (10 over, projected to miss the cut)... J. Nieporte (will definitely miss the cut)... D. Labelle (one under the cut line, but with eight holes still to play). 

And while Phil and Horschel are both near the top, with 75% hit, a number of scoring leaders are way down the fairways hit list.  Hoffman and Pan have hit about 62%.  Colsaerts, 57%. 

GIR also is mixed at predicting scores.  Phil, Horschel, Poulter, Stricker and Rose are all among the top ten in GIR, with Pan not far behind.  All are above 74%.  Kim is back at 65%... Colsaerts at 64%... Donald and Senden at 61%... Kelly at 60% and Hoffman way, way behind at 51%. 

So while many leaders are hitting lots of greens, one is only hitting half, and several others barely hitting 60%.  On top of which several players are hitting lots of greens but not scoring, and are likely to miss the cut. 

It looks to me like so far there has been no single key to Merion.  You can hit fairways, you can miss fairways.  You can hit greens, you can miss greens.  Can't find any putting stats.  There's way more to the course than missing the rough. 

Average score at the end of Friday is 74.7.  Front is averaging around 38.43; back around 36.27. 

[David Panzarasa]

Got to watch this today, I was expecting to see very narrow fairways, and "tricked" up

From the TV perspective, fairways seem very ample to me, but these players are 100% not use to this. They are accustomed to courses being catered to them, where that 290-330 drive could miss a fairway and very little trouble. And, not practice anything but full swing drivers.

Listening to some commentators on Golf Channel and ESPN radio, they just dont play great courses like this anymore. One reason they all sneak away and play "great courses" during their Tour Schedule (Adam Scott playing Pine Valley on Tuesday). The only time they see great courses is on their own "dime/vacation". They play Doral, Arizona etc.. When they get (or ever get) to classic courses, they dont have 4 days of low scores.
Riviera I think is a good example. Scores are never "that low" by one player for 3-4 days, nor is the final score that low ever that would turn people's heads. Actually TPC sawgrass (not saying a great course) shows this as well. Someone showed stats here a few months ago, that scores have not gotten lower/better over the years, as you have to "think" and cant bomb it off the tee without massive trouble missing the fairway.

Today the 13th, was a TWO shot swing with Phil and Stricker. 115yard par 3. That one little hole, no water like TPC 17th, brought a 2 shot swing. Nothing tricked up about that hole at all. Amazing green, but miss it, and suffer....as you should.

I think that's the entire course as whole. Miss fairways, the best of the best players on earth only need to hit 250 yard tee shots, and they aren't use to that. It takes more then 3 practice rounds to remember how to hit a 2-3 iron after a year of hitting driver....I dont find that tricked up, nor too narrow, they are pro's and the best, they should be able to hit 2-3 irons in the fairways. They aren't use to it in my opinion. Miss greens (even from 115yards per above) and suffer.

I find at times people like "wide open" and say it uses strategy, recovery shots etc... but it doesn't penalize "the miss" as much as the rough can. And a missed/bad shot should in fact be penalized.

Brilliant!

[BHoover]

David, I am in complete agreement.

[archie_struthers]

 

There's a lot tougher pins on this golf course than we've seen so far . Rough is brutal , but isn't that the way at the Open?  

It's not anywhere as "tricked up" as Shinnecock was IMHO. It will be interesting to see  as it dries out a little if the rough is more playable. Firm and fast disappeared with the rains, but certainly it will warp up today and tomorrow on the greens. I know there are lots of pin placements left that are really brutal , and if they use them , we might be looking at a winning score of even par.

Just saw Geoff S. on Golf Channel and he reiterated about the pins being so tough , I'm not buying in. These greens are tough all the time and local knowledge is huge.   

[jeffwarne]

Great tournament so far
Nice leaderboard

With the field so bunched, one has to wonder of there were NO fairways, would we. have. 156 way tie for first ?

[Ronald Montesano]

When guys, nay, the leaders are missing fairways by ten yards WITH IRONS, something is amiss.

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