[Bill_Yates]

Back home for a few days of R&R before heading out for a week at Sebonack. For those of you going to the Woman's Open, if you spot a guy with a clipboard and stopwatches, please introduce yourself to me.

Just reviewing many of the posts above and I pretty much agree with the suggestions presented. I always enjoy the posts regarding dealing with slow play at private clubs. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with many clubs and helped them immensely. But I pretty much see their issues as a little easier to address.

Yes, they too have to learn to properly load and manage the course on a daily basis, but with a membership of constantly returning players, the club management team has plenty of leverage to be able to then maintain their pace of play improvements. So, once a policy is decided upon and announced, things are almost guaranteed to improve, no matter what approach is taken. Establishing a smooth flow is always a challenge, but at private clubs, I believe that keeping it going is easier.

[V. Kmetz]

Bill, and Pat, and anyone...

1.  What do you recommend is to be done for clubs that cannot go earlier than 7:00am (local noise restrictions on super's preparation) and so must utilize two tees (1 and 10)?  As a starter for 15 years, I viewed #10 as a "pressure release valve" only and did not allow play to start until 1/2 hour after the front started, and closed it after 1 hour - 1:15.  Even with that, I could only get about 30 players off and STILL sometimes the first group of the back slammed into the rear of the 10th tee field on/about the 14th/15th hole.

1A:(extra info) At the clubs I have worked/still work the typical weekend morning sees 90-115 golfers.

2.  For Pat:  In your system, what happens to groups who are behind a violatory group?  It's all well and good that times are recorded and an enforcement is vigorously followed but what do you say to groups behind those ones?  Do they get a letter too?  Let's say you have two such groups...at 7:50 and another at 8:30...who are off pace...and the ones behind them finishes not 8, but 9 or 10 minutes behind them.  They were strangled by Joe Slowsome all day, but now those guys have an issue looking for a ball on 18...should they get a letter even though for the balance of the day they were/did not hold anyone up?

3. For Pat: I'm assuming the "Letter/Sanction" system is season-long, right? And your slate is wiped clean at the onset of each season?

4. For Pat: Who/What does the logging (seemingly precise in your detail) and knows exactly when the first player hits and the last player holes out?  If it's the starter/Caddiemaster, that's an incredible responsibility to heap on that guy's plate (with an assistant even) as most Caddiemasters I know can't even see their 18th green and are intensely busy with 1. outgoing pm play 2. caddie pay 3. members calling in/out on the phone 4. member service detail 5. inside administration with the comptroller and 6) it puts them in a further confrontational situation with members who will protest what their violating time is....was it 8 minutes and 28 seconds or was it 9 minutes and 11 seconds...AND even if it's 11 minutes and 34 seconds after the group after them, is a caddiemaster/starter REALLY going to report a guy he sees 50, 60, 90 days a year for a number of years...?  If the answer to all of this is a MEMBER VOLUNTEER, then we're fine.  But if a human being who is not a member is the one performing this timing function, it's hard to believe such success.

5.  For Pat: perhaps you addressed this, but does this standard apply to tournament situations? Medal play or competitive situations?

I'm sorry if you respond but I don't get back until later tomorrow night...I've done 66 holes in the last 36 hours with at least 18 more to follow in 9 hours...

Great topic though and given my experience, I would love to earn a living doing what Bill does.

cheers

vk

[Bill_Yates]

VK,
Great questions and post!

Before I can answer your question, I have four questions for you:
1. How balanced or unbalanced (in yardage) are the two nines on your course?
2. What is your starting interval?
3. As the Starter, do you actually start groups on their starting time, or do you simply send them to the first or tenth tee?
4. At what time does the morning play drop off?  And why do people stop playing then?

By the way, there are no right or wrong answers. I'm just asking you to describe your practices and/or the membership's preferences for me.

[V. Kmetz]

Bill,

1. Front = 3285 Back = 3400

2. Alternating 8 and 7 minutes...8:00, 8:08, 8:15, 8:23, 8:30, 8:38, 8:45, 8:53....

2a. My Front runs from 7:15 - 9:30 (after 9:08 rarely used) so it has "technical" room for 19 groups or 76 potential golfers.
2b. And my Back runs from 7:45-9:00 (but I try to shut it at 8:30) so it has "technical" room for 11 groups or 44 potential golfers
2c. there is technical room for 30 groups and 120 golfers...but my most frequent number is about 96 (or 24 groups); many weekend mornings approach 108-110). i have already had two mornings this year hit 112 and 120.

3.  The 10th tee is in front of me and I have good command of it, the 1st tee is a bit of stretch in the other direction, but I can bark orders.  In both instances, my caddies know to collect their people and how I can't lose a single time.

4. I suppose the "drop-off" is about 9:08 on the Front and 8:38/45 on the back...if play is "dropping off" it is only due to the sheer number of golfers being exhausted.  Both Tees are shut for the proportional time space for each half making the turn.  We do not "weave" in other groups, unless extraordinary circumstances prevail

(The tee decay is about one "time" or 7-8 minutes per hour...I used to sometimes ward off someone on a particular spot.

If you seek additional info, please do not hesitate and thanks for your reply

cheers

vk

[Bill_Yates]

vk,

Thanks for the info. Am I correct in thinking this is a private club?  If so, I'm guessing your in a desert or tropical area. Otherwise, I can't understand the pressure to jam people out on the course before 9:30 with a two tee start. Help me understand the dynamics.

[V. Kmetz]

Hi Bill,

It is a private club yes, but it is the NE (Met Area) and honestly, my club is not at all atypical in this regard (at least for those using two tees, starting at 7 or after).

It's not so much "pressure" as the flow of life at a large, active country club where:

A. Most male players 30 - 50 yrs old have family, children responsibilities and the world gears most of the other activities such people perform in the afternoon...so the first half of a weekend day is "theirs" and the second half is family.

B. Several of the 50+ age members (12-24 in number) play cards for 4 hours during the afternoon, from 1:30-5:30.

C.  All age groups relax by the pool/have lunch with their families during the afternoon.  Such activity does not place in the morning

D.  about 33-40% of the members live in NYC and so, once showered, and after lunch depart back for the day they are going to spend in/near their homes.

E.  In the fall, men want to watch football on SAT/SUN afternoons...in the heart of the Golf season, they tend to want to watch the majors during the afternoon.

F.  The previous items are much more important, but the fact that in June, July and August it's HOT in the afternoon, tends to make people wish to get done before the worst of it.

G. Most club functions, whether its board/committee meetings or themed family events or range DEMO days, or what have you are in the afternoon.

cheers

vk

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