Merion's Greens Haven't Changed Since 1912

[Wade Whitehead]

Today Kelly Tilghman tweeted "Super at Merion tells me greens all original (1912) except #12 w/air system to drain. Same greens Jones & Hogan faced #throwback."

How true is this?

WW

[Joe Bausch]

Many of the greensites at Merion are the same as 1912.  But not all.

[DMoriarty]

Many of the greensites at Merion are the same as 1912.  But not all.

Greens basically in their original locations:  1st*, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th.  

*The 1st is a strange one because it is basically in the same location but the hole approaches from a different angle.

[Mark McKeever]

Many of the greensites at Merion are the same as 1912.  But not all.

Greens basically in their original locations:  1st*, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th.  

*The 1st is a strange one because it is basically in the same location but the hole approaches from a different angle.

DM,

You mention same location.  But there is still a possibility that there may have been tinkering with certain features on certain greens right?  Do we have a list of greens that have been changed at some point?


Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

Looking that this aerial comparison... http://golfcoursehistories.com/Merion.html

...it appears he 5th green has been shrunk down since 1937. Yes / no? And is that some sort of bunker front left? And was there a bunker fronting 12 green back in '37?

[DMoriarty]

You mention same location.  But there is still a possibility that there may have been tinkering with certain features on certain greens right?  Do we have a list of greens that have been changed at some point?

Definitely some these greens have been rebuilt, tweaked, etc.  I am aware of some of the early rebuilds and tweaks but don't have a complete list of all the changes throughout the history.

In addition to the 12th, wasn't the 5th tweaked just in the last few years?  

[Joe Bausch]

You mention same location.  But there is still a possibility that there may have been tinkering with certain features on certain greens right?  Do we have a list of greens that have been changed at some point?

Definitely some these greens have been rebuilt, tweaked, etc.  I am aware of some of the early rebuilds and tweaks but don't have a complete list of all the changes throughout the history.

In addition to the 12th, wasn't the 5th tweaked just in the last few years?  

If you mean the 15th instead of the 5th, the answer is yes.

[Tom_Doak]

A more accurate tweet would be that only two greens (12 & 15) have been changed since 1925.  Which is pretty impressive, but some other Golden Age courses could say the same.

[Joe Bausch]

A more accurate tweet would be that only two greens (12 & 15) have been changed since 1925.  Which is pretty impressive, but some other Golden Age courses could say the same.

I think 1, 2, and 14 have also changed since 1925.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Okay, how's this?

"Super at Merion tells me greens all original (1912) except #12 w/air system to drain. Also 1, 2, 14, & 15. Same greens Jones & Hogan faced #throwup."

[Neil_Crafter]

and don't forget fairways half the width that Jones and Hogan faced......

[Mark Bourgeois]

"Super at Merion tells me greens all original (1912) except #12 w/air system to drain. Also 1, 2, 14, & 15. Same greens Jones & Hogan faced and pretty much sort of exactly the same shot values+playing corridors #throwup."

We're gonna need a bigger tweet.

[ChipOat]

Wade,

David basically has it right in his Reply #2.  #8 is close enough to its original location that some of the "new" green was also part of the original.  Also, a couple of feet in the front of the current 2nd green were in the back part of the original.

However, I'm not picking nits - in terms of essentially the original pad, David is accurate.

Whomever gave you your original information is misinformed.

Tom Doak:

Are you picking on me for supporting the work that was done on #'s 12 and 15?

[Ed Brzezowski]

Today Kelly Tilghman tweeted "Super at Merion tells me greens all original (1912) except #12 w/air system to drain. Same greens Jones & Hogan faced #throwback."

How true is this?

WW

He was just trying to get into her panties?  Well that's the rumor anyway .

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Doak:

Are you picking on me for supporting the work that was done on #'s 12 and 15?

Chip:

I hadn't thought of you at all; I was just mentioning the greens that I knew to be changed.  Did it bother your conscience a bit when it came across in that light, that most of the greens are unchanged since the 1920's, except for those?

[Patrick_Mucci]

A more accurate tweet would be that only two greens (12 & 15) have been changed since 1925.  Which is pretty impressive, but some other Golden Age courses could say the same.

Tom,

# 10 was moved to the other (near) side of the road.

Originally, it was an "Alps" hole.

Ditto # 13.

One has to question the walk through the clubhouse to get to # 14 tee.

[ChipOat]

Tom,

Not in the slightest.  Having played both the "before" and the "after", my conscience is not only crystal clear, I actually feel vindicated.

Chip

[Mike Sweeney]

I think The West has all 18 original greens.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Does the 12th on the West have an "air system"? Maybe she fat-finger tweeted.

[Kevin_Reilly]

How many of the greens have XGD installed?

[Mark McKeever]

Is there any chance that the third green had more of a kickplate on it that was flattened out at some point prior to 1925??

Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

Scroll down page to see iso on 5 green: http://golfcoursehistories.com/Merion.html

Here is a side by side comparison taken from the website above -- note: unlike the slider on the website above, the 1937 pic has been shrunk slightly to provide a "margin of safety" in comparison:


Was there a bunker front left in 1937 or is that just discolored grass or bare ground? Is the 2012 green smaller than it used to be?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Actually, looking more closely at the apparent green outlines I can see how those might be the same; the 1937 pic is grainy and what appears to be green off to the left in the picture actually could be fringe. But what about the apparent bunker? Was there one?

[Mark McKeever]

Sure looks like a bunker to me..

Mark

[Mark Luckhardt]

How many of the greens have XGD installed?

Kevin,
All greens on the East have XGD in them, while a few on the West have it in them. The club will begin installing greens drainage in to several more West greens this fall. As well, all greens at Oak Hill CC, NY have XGD in them.

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