Is this what happens when bunkers are

[William_G]

Not unless the OldCourse and many other classic links were designed for the reason

hahaha

[Patrick_Mucci]

According to Golf Digest, here was the original configuration of the hole. EA Sports also has the 1937 version of Augusta in the game, and included similar looking bunkers.

In looking at photos from 1935, today's bunkers look nothing like them.
Today's bunkers are bigger, bolder and almost entirely visible, whereas the 1935 bunkers were more in the mold of "slivers" cut into the hill.

The green, as I mentioned, was more crowned in the video game than it is today, which I thought was interesting.

It's hard to tell from looking at the photos from 1935 if the green is "crowned", but, it certainly appears sloped..

Both the upper tier and the lower tier slope toward the creek.
The upper tier more than I had previously thought.

The bunkers were built into the hillside where the current bunkers are located, so the assumption is they still had significant downslope, even if it isn't as much as today's bunkers.

Their size and configuration are entirely different.
In 1935, while you could see a portion of them, today, they jump out at your eye.

EDIT: I looked at some older photos, the bunkers were built into the same hillside but did not occupy quite as much space and were not dug as deep as the current bunkers. They still presented a downhill bunker shot but not as demanding as the current bunkers.

And, they were  nowhere near as photogenic as today's bunkers.

On # 12, there were NO bunkers behind the green in 1935

[William_G]

It also looks like #12 had a small bunker behind the green, on the hill.  I think it would have required playing a sand shot from a downhill lie, to a shallow green with water on the far side. 

In the photo tour I saw of CPC, it also looked like some of the bunkers were pretty much out of play. 

Mac obviously wasn't designing for TV.  But it looks like he sometimes designed bunkers for show as opposed to function, at least where good players were concerned.   

Ross also put some bunkers in on his courses "for show", and I like it.

Obviously the camouflage hazard is the opposite, where you can't see it's there, but it is in play.

So "for show" bunkers in play?

[Jim Nugent]

On # 12, there were NO bunkers behind the green in 1935[/size][/color]

Whitten says you are wrong, and that in 1934 there was a small bunker on the hill behind/above the green.  

Wexler says in his GCA essay on ANGC that you are right, and that Mackenzie wrote about that.  But I just looked at the sketch Mac made, in 1931, of ANGC, that Wexler reproduces at the start of his essay.  While it's hard to tell exactly, it looks like Mackenzie drew a small bunker behind #12 (then #3) green.  

Wexler also says Mackenzie planned no bunkers around #13 green:

"Like the twelfth, MacKenzie’s plan for the thirteenth green indicated a complete absence of sand, but again, things seem to have evolved quickly, as three flashy bunkers were carved into the back hillside either during construction or in preparation for the inaugural Masters."  

ETA: fwiw, the new Tiger Woods Augusta game also shows a bunker behind #12 green.  Of course if Tiger's game is based on Whitten's article, that might not be surprising. 

[Connor Dougherty]

ETA: fwiw, the new Tiger Woods Augusta game also shows a bunker behind #12 green.  Of course if Tiger's game is based on Whitten's article, that might not be surprising. 

The Tiger Woods game is based on the first year the Masters was contested at the course (the game lists it as 1934). I would assume, given they usually go out to the clubs to get the contours right, that they used ANGC as their resource for the original configuration, as well as archived images from the Augusta History Museum (there is an album in the game you can look at)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Nugent,

Remember that MacKenzie didn't visit the site often and at one time sent Marion Hollins in his stead.
So it doesn't surprise me that there could be variations in the "as built" versus his renderings.

In looking at an early photo of # 12, I didn't see a bunker in back of # 12.
But, even if one was there, it obviously wasn't constructed with a high degree of visibility in mind

[Connor Dougherty]

According to Golf Digest, here was the original configuration of the hole. EA Sports also has the 1937 version of Augusta in the game, and included similar looking bunkers.

In looking at photos from 1935, today's bunkers look nothing like them.
Today's bunkers are bigger, bolder and almost entirely visible, whereas the 1935 bunkers were more in the mold of "slivers" cut into the hill.

The green, as I mentioned, was more crowned in the video game than it is today, which I thought was interesting.

It's hard to tell from looking at the photos from 1935 if the green is "crowned", but, it certainly appears sloped..

Both the upper tier and the lower tier slope toward the creek.
The upper tier more than I had previously thought.

The bunkers were built into the hillside where the current bunkers are located, so the assumption is they still had significant downslope, even if it isn't as much as today's bunkers.

Their size and configuration are entirely different.
In 1935, while you could see a portion of them, today, they jump out at your eye.

EDIT: I looked at some older photos, the bunkers were built into the same hillside but did not occupy quite as much space and were not dug as deep as the current bunkers. They still presented a downhill bunker shot but not as demanding as the current bunkers.

And, they were  nowhere near as photogenic as today's bunkers.

On # 12, there were NO bunkers behind the green in 1935

Patrick,
After sorting through all of the green writing, I'm starting to think you're correct. The more I think about it the more I believe those bunkers are built for TV. The current array was built in 1950, and has been slightly modified since. Television coverage started in 1956. It's very plausible they built those bunkers in anticipation of the event being televised and gave a few years time to get reactions from the players on the bunkers.

It reminds me of what Geoff Shackelford called the "Framing School of Design:" Building golf holes with the primary intention of looking good. Pine Valley was built as a championship course and solely as that (although I'm sure it would look incredible on TV  ) Muirfield Village, ANGC, (or, to throw in a third, Bay Hill), and clubs like them were built as championship courses to stage a tournament to be aired on television. I'm starting to think that the knowledge that the course will be televised is playing a further role in the construction of these bunkers.

Forgive me, Patrick, but it seems that I still may be a moron, but I'm working on it. 

[Jim Nugent]

Pat, I don't have any strong sense about #12; Mac definitely did not spend much time there; and others could easily have made changes from his plans.  

Still, as I look at his 1931 sketch, I see several bunkers that look out of play for a decent to good golfer.  Using current numbering, on #1, #4, #5, possibly #8, #14 and #18.  Maybe they would appear different in person, but on the map it seems like they were there more for looks than for function.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Connor,

I certainly think that modifications to courses that host annual PGA events give ample consideration to TV coverage.

Does anyone think that the shrubbery at ANGC isn't for the cameras

At this early stage I wouldn't classify you as a moron, rather, a MIT (Moron in training)

[William_G]

Connor,

I certainly think that modifications to courses that host annual PGA events give ample consideration to TV coverage.

Does anyone think that the shrubbery at ANGC isn't for the cameras

At this early stage I wouldn't classify you as a moron, rather, a MIT (Moron in training)

a 70 yr old and a 20 yr old arguing on the internet about golf architecture...only on GCA   

[Patrick_Mucci]

William,

Isn't that one of the great attributes of golf ?

It's a game for the ages and it's a game where golfers of all ages can play and compete on an equal footing.
As can rich and poor, working and retired, masterminds and morons 

[Pete_Pittock]

This bunker is by a well known architectural firm. I have no idea what their motivation was, but a ball in the 8' wide and 6" deep slot is absolutely unplayable.

In a very small way it reminded me of the bunker just past the cove on the eighth hole at Pebble Beach about 30 years ago. It was so deep and so narrow I had to putt to a wider section to continue play.

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