Royal St. David's profile is posted...

[Ran Morrissett]

...under Courses by Country.

Bernard Darwin’s shadow is cast far and wide across Wales. His heart was famously located in Aberdovey 50 minutes south of Harlech by narrow gauge rail. Yet, his golfing brain might have been here at Royal St. David’s. Read his gracious comments:

Small wonder if the visitor falls in love with Harlech at first sight, for no golf course in the world has a more splendid background than the old castle, which stands at the top of a sheer precipice of rock looking down over the links. Wherever we go it is never out of sight, and though we may glance away at the hills with Snowden in the distance, we always come back to the castle with a never satisfied longing. It is so obviously splendid that we might imagine that we should in time grow tired of it, but we never do.

He goes on to write, “... that all the golf is good, very good indeed, and fit to test the very best of players.”

Right he is but testing the best players has never been the most important thing to me and I doubt that it is for the vast majority of handicap golfers. Most of us just want to get outdoors, have fun, get exercise, and be with friends in a great environment where we can reconnect to nature. Put a big tick in that box for Harlech; it’s as enjoyable as it is challenging. Its famous dunes holes need no introduction. The castle doesn’t either. ‘Brooding’ is the word every writer has chosen to describe it because ... it’s spot-on appropriate!



What I don’t think gets recognized is the appeal and architectural merit of many of Harlech’s holes that are away from the dunes. The presence of the Snowdonia mountain range gives it an added dimension over most links (and courses for that matter). While Cabot was being built Rod Whitman grumbled  that he didn’t understand why we were focused on the backdrop of a certain hole. He said, ‘If I do my job properly, no one will even care. It’s all about the golf.’ Right .... and wrong! The setting makes a difference.


Even an old shoe like Rod Whitman would be impressed by Harlech’s natural diversity. Pictured above is the fifth green, well removed from the dunes and yet the quality of the golf doesn’t suffer.

As you tack from beneath the brooding castle toward the mountains and on into the dunes, the golf feels natural at every turn. That aspect – natural golf – holds huge sway for me which helps explain why I have always held courses like Westward Ho! and Brancaster in very high esteem.

Same for Harlech. It happened that I spent my 50th birthday there and I couldn’t have picked a better place or had finer company.

See what you think!

Best,

[Tony_Muldoon]

Same for Harlech. It happened that I spent my 50th birthday there and I couldn’t have picked a better place or had finer company.

See what you think!

Best,

Have you just got round to digitising these pictures?   

Many happy returns.

[Ben Stephens]

Hi Ran,

About time a Welsh course was in the Courses by Country Category on GCA!

I am pleased to see Royal St Davids or Clwb Golff Brenhinol Dewi Sant as it is know in North Wales got to make the trip sometime soon!

There are many other good ones I have heard - Bulls Bay a Fowler course on Anglesey, Nefyn, Conwy etc.

Unfortunately I have only ventured around a bit in the south and Pyle + Kenfig is a must see!

Cheers
Ben

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Ran, I am glad you appreciate Harlech. It has its detractors because it doesn't use the big dunes and you can only see the sea from one hole. I love it.

[Kevin Pallier]

Ran

Thanks for the review and congratulations on the half-century !

Harlech for mine is a fun course to play - it's a pity they weren't able to use some of the dunes a bit more but it has some cool holes.

I hope you got to go to Porthcawl and we see a review of it ?

[Bill_McBride]

Ran

Thanks for the review and congratulations on the half-century !

Harlech for mine is a fun course to play - it's a pity they weren't able to use some of the dunes a bit more but it has some cool holes.

I hope you got to go to Porthcawl and we see a review of it ?

Kevin, I haven't made the trip, but I think it is quite a trek through mountainous terrain from Harlech in North Wales to Porthcawl (and Pennard and Southerndown) in South Wales.   Really two separate trips. 

[John Mayhugh]

Always enjoy reading these profiles.  Has anyone taken on the challenge of playing all of the 200+ courses that Ran has written up?  For all of the list guys, this would be a good one to try.  I've seen close to 1/3 of them, and continue to be impressed with how well Ran summarizes the experience.

Harlech......some day.

[Mark_F]

Kevin, I haven't made the trip, but I think it is quite a trek through mountainous terrain from Harlech in North Wales to Porthcawl (and Pennard and Southerndown) in South Wales.   Really two separate trips. 

I went the opposite way Bill, and it is quite a trip - through a lot of little former mining villages.  I'm fairly sure I did it in less than a day, but it was a tiring journey.

I will have to peruse this profile carefully - I was vastly underwhelmed by Harlech, just as I was Southerness, with which it shares a lot of similarities. 

[Sean_A]

In a way I am surprised Ran liked Harlech.  Its awfully subtle, apparently too subtle for Aussies and Ran lived there for a spell.  Harlech is far from great (is there a great course in Wales?), but it is a very good course and tough to score on. 

Cheers Ran.

Ciao

[Mark_F]

In a way I am surprised Ran liked Harlech.  Its awfully subtle, apparently too subtle for Aussies and Ran lived there for a spell.  Harlech is far from great (is there a great course in Wales?), but it is a very good course and tough to score on. 

Sean,

I agree it is a tough course to score on.  But many of the holes are indistinguishable from each other, at least in my memory.

[Michael Whitaker]

Is there a great course in Wales?

This is a great question, Sean, and suitable for its own thread.

[Mike Policano]

Ran, nice wire up. I am headed for Wales in August for 10 days. I look forward to playing RSD and comparing it to your notes.

Cheers, Mike

[Ran Morrissett]

Sean,

Who doesn't consider Porthcawl great?? Only a brute or Neanderthal!

PS I define great as being a world top 100 course, which would be about an 8- on the Doak scale.

I understand that Pennard might not be everyone's cup of tea but how many countries have three courses the standard of Harlech, Pennard, and Porthcawl? Certainly less than a dozen, yes? Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, England, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland, New Zealand, Netherlands, maybe France and not many more right?

Mile for mile, pound for pound, Wales counts.

Best,

[Bill_McBride]

Sean,

Who doesn't consider Porthcawl great?? Only a brute or Neanderthal!

PS I define great as being a world top 100 course, which would be about an 8- on the Doak scale.

I understand that Pennard might not be everyone's cup of tea but how many countries have three courses the standard of Harlech, Pennard, and Porthcawl? Certainly less than a dozen, yes? Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, England, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland, New Zealand, maybe France and not many more right?

Mile for mile, pound for pound, Wales counts.

Best,

I guess Porthcawl has a couple or three par 5s that could deduct from its greatness (#8, 12 and 17), but the positives so outweigh those mild negative moments of blandness that outcome is still great in my reckoning.    The opening sequence along the beach, the ocean always in sight, the frightening bunkering, and yes the tee shots up onto the plateau fairways at 12 and 17.  I could never be bored playing Porthcawl, and it's as keen a links as you can find. 

Pennard?   Aye, a different course entirely but one that can get the blood racing!

 

[Thomas Dai]

A Welsh course formally profiled.

As to the "trek through mountainous terrain from Harlech in North Wales to Porthcawl (and Pennard and Southerndown) in South Wales.   Really two separate trips.". Good point, the Harlech/Aberdovey/Porthmadog area is a bit awkward to get to easily, as the English kings found out all those centuries ago, hence the great castles, but then again, two trips to Wales has got to be a good thing!

It's about a three and a half hour drive from the 'golfing hotspot' that is around Porthcawl to the Harlech area, but there's the opportunity for a half-way golfing break-point on route at somewhere like the links at Borth & Ynyslas if you go along the west coast, or the way I'd suggest, which is over the beautiful Brecon Beacons and then on via Rhayader and Dolgellau, stopping on the journey for 18-holes at Llandrindod Wells.

Llandrindod Wells is a old spa town and above the town is LWGC - http://www.lwgc.co.uk/gallery.php/ - a hill top course, laid out by Harry Vardon early last century, with terrific turf to play from and wonderful views over mid-Wales. LWGC is not too dissimilar to the likes of Kington or Church Stretton - good fun and a different golf 'experience'.

Splendid review Ran, and a belated "pen-blwydd hapus" for your 50th.

All the best


Later edit - here are some old b&w photos of RStD converted into colour -

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Who doesn't consider Porthcawl great?? Only a brute or Neanderthal!

PS I define great as being a world top 100 course, which would be about an 8- on the Doak scale.

I understand that Pennard might not be everyone's cup of tea but how many countries have three courses the standard of Harlech, Pennard, and Porthcawl? Certainly less than a dozen, yes? Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, England, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland, New Zealand, Netherlands, maybe France and not many more right?

Mile for mile, pound for pound, Wales counts.

Best,

Ran

Just chuck out the Doak scores - its a cover - a ruse - a scam.  

No question Wales counts - you are singing to the choir.  However, only a dandy would consider Porthcawl great.  I don't consider Pennard great,  but its about as close as a course can be to great and not make the grade.  Porthcawl is in no shape or form superior to Pennard.  Hence, Porthcawl can't be great either.  Perusing the wonderful Unofficial GCA top 100, I see Porthcawl comes in at #117 and Pennard rightfully tops it, but is still shy of your Golden Goose. Porthcawl has scope to improve - a lot.  Pennard doesn't really have any scope for improvement - its that sort of course.  Lets talk in 10 years and see if Porthcawl can shake off that unmistakable aura of "been elsewhere, saw that".  

Beside all this greatness and ranking rigmorale, where would you rather play - Pennard or Porthcawl?  The answer to that question is the dividing line between who has a soul for the game and who is nothing more than a top 100 number cruncher wearing izod.

Ciao

  

[Ben Stephens]

Sean,

Who doesn't consider Porthcawl great?? Only a brute or Neanderthal!

PS I define great as being a world top 100 course, which would be about an 8- on the Doak scale.

I understand that Pennard might not be everyone's cup of tea but how many countries have three courses the standard of Harlech, Pennard, and Porthcawl? Certainly less than a dozen, yes? Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, England, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland, New Zealand, Netherlands, maybe France and not many more right?

Mile for mile, pound for pound, Wales counts.

Best,

Ran

Just chuck out the Doak scores - its a cover - a ruse - a scam.  

No question Wales counts - you are singing to the choir.  However, only a dandy would consider Porthcawl great.  I don't consider Pennard great,  but its about as close as a course can be to great and not make the grade.  Porthcawl is in no shape or form superior to Pennard.  Hence, Porthcawl can't be great either.  Perusing the wonderful Unofficial GCA top 100, I see Porthcawl comes in at #117 and Pennard rightfully tops it, but is still shy of your Golden Goose. Porthcawl has scope to improve - a lot.  Pennard doesn't really have any scope for improvement - its that sort of course.  Lets talk in 10 years and see if Porthcawl can shake off that unmistakable aura of "been elsewhere, saw that".  

Beside all this greatness and ranking rigmorale, where would you rather play - Pennard or Porthcawl?  The answer to that question is the dividing line between who has a soul for the game and who is nothing more than a top 100 number cruncher wearing izod.

Ciao

  

Sean,

I vouch for Ran's statement regarding Porthcawl. I think it is a very fine links and it is underrated by many. Those first 3 holes along the bay are as tough as a start that you can find anywhere and Simpson had balanced the course out well so that it is playable for many. I heard somewhere that they are building a new 17th green - can anyone confirm this.

I personally would rate Porthcawl above Lytham and Hoylake as it is a more exciting and better test of links golf.

The Senior Open is being played at Porthcawl next year with the 18th becoming the first hole and the first which then becomes the second hole being played off the small tee by the bay as opposed to the crossover tees used at BUDA 2011.

Pennard - we have gone through this many times - it is a case of an missed opportunity for me because there are more weak holes than strong holes. Some of the greens there look out of synch with the natural landscaping and there is scope for creating a better layout and course utilising the land available (isn't there 300 acres??)

I think Pyle and Kenfig is a better course than Pennard now that the club have improved the Colt front nine to a better standard. The Dunes land has 15 holes only 9 is used at all times. Like Pennard there is scope for 18 holes in the Dunes alone and potentially both Pennard and Pyle could have been world class golf courses.

Hope to visit Southerndown in the summer.

I agree with the Doak scale than the Arble ratings. I can see where both of you are coming from.

Cheers
Ben

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Who doesn't consider Porthcawl great?? Only a brute or Neanderthal!

PS I define great as being a world top 100 course, which would be about an 8- on the Doak scale.

I understand that Pennard might not be everyone's cup of tea but how many countries have three courses the standard of Harlech, Pennard, and Porthcawl? Certainly less than a dozen, yes? Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, England, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland, New Zealand, Netherlands, maybe France and not many more right?

Mile for mile, pound for pound, Wales counts.

Best,

Ran

Just chuck out the Doak scores - its a cover - a ruse - a scam.  

No question Wales counts - you are singing to the choir.  However, only a dandy would consider Porthcawl great.  I don't consider Pennard great,  but its about as close as a course can be to great and not make the grade.  Porthcawl is in no shape or form superior to Pennard.  Hence, Porthcawl can't be great either.  Perusing the wonderful Unofficial GCA top 100, I see Porthcawl comes in at #117 and Pennard rightfully tops it, but is still shy of your Golden Goose. Porthcawl has scope to improve - a lot.  Pennard doesn't really have any scope for improvement - its that sort of course.  Lets talk in 10 years and see if Porthcawl can shake off that unmistakable aura of "been elsewhere, saw that".  

Beside all this greatness and ranking rigmorale, where would you rather play - Pennard or Porthcawl?  The answer to that question is the dividing line between who has a soul for the game and who is nothing more than a top 100 number cruncher wearing izod.

Ciao

  

Sean,

I vouch for Ran's statement regarding Porthcawl. I think it is a very fine links and it is underrated by many. Those first 3 holes along the bay are as tough as a start that you can find anywhere and Simpson had balanced the course out well so that it is playable for many. I heard somewhere that they are building a new 17th green - can anyone confirm this.

I personally would rate Porthcawl above Lytham and Hoylake as it is a more exciting and better test of links golf.

The Senior Open is being played at Porthcawl next year with the 18th becoming the first hole and the first which then becomes the second hole being played off the small tee by the bay as opposed to the crossover tees used at BUDA 2011.

Pennard - we have gone through this many times - it is a case of an missed opportunity for me because there are more weak holes than strong holes. Some of the greens there look out of synch with the natural landscaping and there is scope for creating a better layout and course utilising the land available (isn't there 300 acres??)

I think Pyle and Kenfig is a better course than Pennard now that the club have improved the Colt front nine to a better standard. The Dunes land has 15 holes only 9 is used at all times. Like Pennard there is scope for 18 holes in the Dunes alone and potentially both Pennard and Pyle could have been world class golf courses.

Hope to visit Southerndown in the summer.

I agree with the Doak scale than the Arble ratings. I can see where both of you are coming from.

Cheers
Ben

Thats your call Ben.  But no matter how I slice it and dice it, Pennard has better and more exciting holes than Porthcawl.  I think the two measure up very well in terms of quality.  Factor in Pennard's green fee being much less than half Porthcawl's bloated green fee AND that Pennard is one of the most beautiful spots on the planet to hit a golf ball and the book on the matter is closed - tee hee. 

I am not sure what to say concerning P&K being better than Pennard so I won't say anything. 

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

There is nothing exciting or distinctive about Porthcawl. So it has 3 nice holes to open with by the water - people always go back to those but what about the other 15 holes? I would certainly not call it great -  in fact it's a bit dull - what's great about it?

I would call Pennard great - there is nothing else out there like it. That's a pretty good start, but it also happens to have great holes. It is a thrilling experience over highly unusual and interesting terrain and in a wonderful setting. If it was conditioned better, had a royal designation and had the Porthcawl clubhouse sat next to it, we wouldn't be having this conversation - Pennard would be undisputed King of Wales.

Sean/Brian,

Pennard has got a better site than Porthcawl its just that some of the green locations and holes ie fairway and tees are in the wrong place I feel. There is definitely a better 18 hole course out there if it was a blank canvas than the current one. The current layout just doesn't click for me knowing that there is a better one out there potentially.

The holes that come to mind for me at Pennard are only 7, 8 and 11

For me Porthcawl has more memorable stand out holes than Pennard for me with 1,2,3,8,9,15 and 16

Get out to P+K!! its good value for money and a course of 2 halves combining the work of Colt (front 9) and Mackenzie Ross (back 9)

I look at the merits of being a golf course, its playability, variation of holes, layout, rhythm and challenge. If it was my rating system in which I measure each hole out of 5 and layout out of 5 plus clubhouse out of 5. P+K would be ahead of Pennard.

Why do you think most people say both Porthcawl and P+K (even Machynys) are ahead of Pennard

Cheers
Ben

[Sean_A]

Ben

As I say, that is your opinion and I can understand you preferring Porthcawl.  What I can't understand is an archie who would have the arrogance to want to see a truly unique course such as Pennard bulldozed in favour of a cookie cutter design to suit modern tastes .  That sort of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.  Rankings, lists and any other such criteria have no pull in a conversation of this sort.  There isn't much point in going back and forth because while my opinion isn't set in stone, I would say it is set in amber. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

There is nothing exciting or distinctive about Porthcawl. So it has 3 nice holes to open with by the water - people always go back to those but what about the other 15 holes? I would certainly not call it great -  in fact it's a bit dull - what's great about it?

I would call Pennard great - there is nothing else out there like it. That's a pretty good start, but it also happens to have great holes. It is a thrilling experience over highly unusual and interesting terrain and in a wonderful setting. If it was conditioned better, had a royal designation and had the Porthcawl clubhouse sat next to it, we wouldn't be having this conversation - Pennard would be undisputed King of Wales.

+1 (almost) 
Pennard IS great and is the best course I played in Wales out of 12
Passed the play it a second time test , but had to wait for daylight.
If it was conditioned "better"  and had RP's clubhouse , I'd be less interested in returning

[Ben Stephens]

Ben

As I say, that is your opinion and I can understand you preferring Porthcawl.  What I can't understand is an archie who would have the arrogance to want to see a truly unique course such as Pennard bulldozed in favour of a cookie cutter design to suit modern tastes .  That sort of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.  Rankings, lists and any other such criteria have no pull in a conversation of this sort.  There isn't much point in going back and forth because while my opinion isn't set in stone, I would say it is set in amber. 

Ciao

Sean

I would used the natural slopes or design greens that blend in with the landscape rather than some of Pennard's cookie cutter style greens like 2, 5, 9, 12, 13, 15.

The problem is I can see the potential where you can't. This is similar to everyday people like to see what they see like for instance architecture rather than think out of the box. Our esteemed friend Tom Doak would make Pennard a world class course and it would be interesting to see what he comes up with if he had the opportunity to do so.

Porthcawl's greens blend in with its landscape better than Pennard.

The worst cookie cutter greens for me are on David Thomas' designed courses they all seem to be the same!! For instance the Belfry, Mottram Hall, Slaley Hall etc

Cheers
Ben

[jeffwarne]

[

If it was conditioned "better"   and had RP's clubhouse , I'd be less interested in returning

Jeff, you don't like RP's clubhouse? I thought it was one of the coolest I've seen. Full of character. The Pennard clubhouse is a functional modern eyesore with no character - can you elaborate on why it would make you less likely to return if the two were replaced?

Whatever about clubhouses, each to their own in terms of their personal tastes, but your second comment really has me stumped. You do know I don't mean manicuring, I mean conditioning and I'm not saying Pennard is terrible but I've definitely seen better - RP being an obvious example of conditioning that is clearly a notch above Pennard. I just can't fathom how improved conditions would makes you LESS likely to return to Pennard. If the greenkeeper sent an annual newsletter saying: "great news guys - we've managed to eradicate all of the Poa, Rye grass and all of the other undesirable grasses for links golf and have now 100% fescue on the course meaning firmer, more consistent playing surfaces. The greens are running smooth, the transitions from fairway to green are indistinguishable and the rough, where once very green and juicy in places, has been replaced by wispy fescue that is still a penalty but at least you can find the ball and hit out of it " - if you saw that email, you are telling me your heart would sink?
 

Brian,
I enjoyed my stay in the Royal Porthcawl dormy house and had a fine meal there.
I thought it was an excellent clubhouse, .
RP was far less rustic in its conditioning than Pennard.
The problem is neither is really very important to me.
I will say I also enjoyed the golf course.

That said, I far prefer the rusticness and simplicity of a place like Pennard, and more importantly, if Pennard possessed the attributes that make RP more attractive to you and most, it would be
 1.more expensive(Pennard didn't even have a Head Greenkeeper for a number of months and I think we can agree their clubhouse/dormy setup costs quite a bit more to maintain/staff)
 2. more crowded
 3. more like other places

That puts me in the minority, just the way I like it

[Ally Mcintosh]

Haven't seen Pennard, Harlech or even Pyle & Kenfig.

But I thought Porthcawl to be out of the top drawer.... It has a LOT going for it...

[Sean_A]

Ben

As I say, that is your opinion and I can understand you preferring Porthcawl.  What I can't understand is an archie who would have the arrogance to want to see a truly unique course such as Pennard bulldozed in favour of a cookie cutter design to suit modern tastes .  That sort of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.  Rankings, lists and any other such criteria have no pull in a conversation of this sort.  There isn't much point in going back and forth because while my opinion isn't set in stone, I would say it is set in amber. 

Ciao

Sean

I would used the natural slopes or design greens that blend in with the landscape rather than some of Pennard's cookie cutter style greens like 2, 5, 9, 12, 13, 15.

The problem is I can see the potential where you can't. This is similar to everyday people like to see what they see like for instance architecture rather than think out of the box. Our esteemed friend Tom Doak would make Pennard a world class course and it would be interesting to see what he comes up with if he had the opportunity to do so.

Porthcawl's greens blend in with its landscape better than Pennard.

The worst cookie cutter greens for me are on David Thomas' designed courses they all seem to be the same!! For instance the Belfry, Mottram Hall, Slaley Hall etc

Cheers
Ben

Ben - you don't get it.  Pennard is unique.  If you let these modern guys onto the course it will begin to look a lot like many other modern courses.  What is the point - to chase rankings?  Interestingly, the same terrain which makes Pennard a one-off likely means it can never be considered great.  The course is, however, plenty good enough and more importantly - it scores out of this world on the funometer.  Have you noticed how so many of the "great" courses in the world look so similar?  There are reasons for that mostly to do with with design concepts being copied endlessly.  Originality should still count for something and Pennard has that in spades.

Ciao

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