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Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (11th hole up)
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2013, 07:55:11 AM »
I note Lynn's point about the reverse cambered fairway on the 10th at Gulph Mills. It's a doozy of an opener for the back nine, and matches the difficulty of the first hole in that the camber of the fairway tends to move the ball right and take away roll, which lengthens the approach. I am certain that Robert Trent Jones would be elated to know that I have never been comfortable on this hole, even on the few occasions where I have managed to draw the ball down the left tree line around the corner to shorten up the approach. It's a brute, there is no question.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (11th hole up)
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2013, 12:10:10 PM »
#12.  Par 5 (523 yards).



From the ED:

     Originally a straight-away, 555 yard par 5, with a sightline near the back of the #15 green, to below the present lady's tee on the 10th hole. This hole was the most heavily bunkered, a total of 11, at GMGC.

     Wayne Stiles made minor bunkering changes in 1940, grassing over the cross bunkers 100 yards off the tee and constructing the left fairway bunker. In 1966, as a result of the new practice range, Robert Trent Jones redesigned the second half of the fairway to swing left in a dogleg around the #13th hole pond, and to be bordered on the left side by trees to the present green.

     Hole #12 is a pretty dogleg left into the base of the valley. GMGC has five or six fairway areas where a few extra yards of carry is the difference between the ball stopping quickly or caroming 30-40 yards down the fairway This fairway has that feature. The others are #3, #7, #13, #16 and #18. The large Ash, hugging the fairway on the right, one hundred yards from the green, is the main strategic consideration of the second shot. The 12th green, with its narrow front and wide back, combines features of a large and small green well.


Tee view:



I like how some old bunkers were grassed over and not made smooth:



Second shot view:



My less than ideal line in for the 3rd shot:   :)



Looking back down the hole from just over the green:


« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:18:20 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (12th hole up)
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2013, 07:21:58 PM »
Keep 'em coming, Joe :)

David Amarnek

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (12th hole up)
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2013, 08:39:24 PM »
To The Lurker:
There's still a few years to go until GMGC celebrates its centennial and I propose that you update your wonderful Design Evolution booklet to include all these anecdotes about Gil Hanse's contributions and any new historical info you now have.  What a great complement to any centennial book that hopefully will be produced.
BTW, hope to see you in Philly for the US Open!!!
David

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (12th hole up)
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2013, 11:11:28 AM »
#13.  Uphill par 4 (435 yards; No. 2 stroke hole).



From the DE:

     The old tee boxes of the original #13 hole can be seen between the side by side sycamore trees slightly in front and to the right of the present #12 green. The original design was a 416 yard, slight dogleg left, across the pond and over an enormous berm, possibly six feet high, above the pond. A drive up the hill had to be played over two inline "topped shot" bunkers and to the right of the berm.

     This route was later guarded on the right by the fairway bunker added in the 1930s. In 1957, WE Gordon added the left greenside bunker and grassed over the bunker extending across the back of the green. The original green was much broader in the rear with a very steep "kick-up" which caused balls played to the back to run back down the green.

     The present tee boxes were sited and constructed in 1966 by Robert Trent jones and the two left fairway bunkers replaced the extraordinary berm. The redesigned hole (necessitated by the practice range) plays as a slight uphill dogleg right at 401 yards.

     The incline of this hole and the rise across the fairway at 220 yards makes this 401 yarder play about 430, particularly if the rise is not carried. The shot in is a typical GMGC approach shot playing longer than the actual yardage. The par of this hole for women needs to be altered or the tees need to be brought forward.

     My only regret with this hole is that I never saw the berm above the pond. It must have been a difficult feature because one caddy I interviewed claimed it was fifteen feet high. Malcolm Wister remembers, as a lad, getting his ball stuck behind it occasionally with no hope for advancement. His solution was to hurl his ball over the berm in frustration, followed by his clubs and then himself. This extraordinary design feature was one that definitely did not stand the test of time.


Tee view:



Approach view:



From short of the green:



From a rise over the green:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:20:24 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (13th hole up)
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »
A comment about 13. This is a demanding long 4, ussually a hybrid for me into this green, occasionally a 4 or 5 iron if I really kill the drive. The large  green is pitched back at the fairway and if the hole is located up front overcooked approaches can set up very defensive lags. The front right portion of the green has angled slope that adds an additional challenge to any putt or chip to hole locations left of it. The bunkering near the green tends to collect lots of 2nd shots, especially the left green side bunker. There are many putts on this green with substantial amounts of break if one is left or right of the hole. It's a beautiful long par 4 that fits nicely into the land and into the routing. Par is always a good score on this hole, one of my favorites at GMGC.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (13th hole up)
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2013, 12:23:27 PM »
#14.  Par 3 (190 yards).



From the ED:

     A 295 yard par 4, this hole was considered relatively weak. The tee box was approximately 20 yards to the right of the cross bunker near the green on #13. The original green was sited just past the evergreen trees behind the present green. In 1937, Perry Maxwell relocated the tee box and constructed the well-bunkered green on its present site, creating a 165-195 yard par 3, thereby swapping par with the 11th hole in one redesign project.

     In 1957, WF Gordon enlarged the first right greenside bunker and constructed the second of the three right greenside bunkers. The original "topped shot" cross bunker and rightside fairway bunker, from the old par 4, can still be seen on this hole. This well-bunkered hole has a relatively narrow center front opening. The tee shot, unfortunately, has a somewhat restricted feel due to the two mature trees on the left, halfway to the green. The evergreen tree hugging the left greenside bunker should be removed, particularly as the evergreens behind it have grown and provide some degree of protection for players walking off the 15th tee.

     The green is Perry Maxwell's mildest effort on GMGC but there is green space that should be recovered. The far right portion of this green should be expanded toward the two right greenside bunkers. This would provide a more reasonable gamble to a wonderful pin position in the hollow, below the green's rightside downslope. As it is, this pin position really can't be used as any ball on the green to its left, would be putted off the green.


Note:  I think the two trees talked about above are now mulch somewhere.   :)


Forward tee view:



From just short of the green:



From left of the green on the way to the 15th tee box:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:22:14 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2013, 01:31:00 PM »
From The Lurker:
 
One might wonder what those two bunkers sort of connected in a chain to that left greenside bunker are all about.
 
They were the vestiges of a really interesting architectural feature back then that was referred to as a "necklace of bunkers." In other words, those two bunkers on #14 connected to top shot bunkers just off the tees of #15 and created a "necklace of bunkers."
 
Unfortunately, all the Ross "Top Shot" bunkers were removed from GMGC in the 1940s on the recommendation of Wayne Stiles. Gil wanted to put them all back but the club wouldn't let him.


Here is a photo of that area from the earlier 1937 PennPilot aerial:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:22:39 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2013, 02:45:10 PM »
Thanks for the explanation on the bunkers Joe.  Its a shame the club voted it down to put them back in...man that would look neat.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2013, 08:37:17 PM »
From The Lurker:
  
Mark:
 
The infamous and controversial Tom Paul even remembers the exact discussion when the Master Plan committee was working on the plan with Gil Hanse. Gil really wanted to put that massive sand bunker back in the base of the quarry on #4 and #7 and he wanted to restore all the Ross "Top Shot" bunkers the course originally had which were on most of the holes. One member of the Master Plan committee just asked Gil what it would cost to restore one of those bunkers and Gil said; "About $8,000 each." The next remark was; "Well then, forget about that." It's too bad but that's the way things go in the real world sometimes. The club has just formed a "Special" committee to look into dissatisfaction with some of the playability of the 7th green and the fact that the quarry wall along side the green is unstable from erosion caused by drainage in that area into the quarry. The present 7th green was redesigned during the Hanse Master Plan. We were looking to create a Perry Maxwell style on it and with it.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2013, 09:19:16 PM »
Thanks for the insight TP!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2013, 09:27:39 PM »
Thanks for the insight TP TL!

Mark
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (14th hole up)
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2013, 09:06:10 AM »
#15.  Dogleg right par 4 (394 yards).

Heading into the setting sun for a couple of holes so lighting not so good.



From the DE:

     Other than the removal or abandonment of various bunkers, the 15th hole has remained essentially the same, playing to its original 377 yards. Ross' trademark crossbunkering, 75 yards off the tee, was removed by Wayne Stiles in 1941. Also on Stiles' recommendation the fairway was narrowed on the right side, from the bend to the green, and the rear greenside sand bunker was abandoned. As a consequence of the narrowing of the right side of the fairway, the trees on the inside of the dogleg have grown out substantially. The size of the green has decreased, particularly on the front corners and in the left rear.

     The strategic story of this hole relates almost entirely to its pin positions. The player should prepare for this hole from the 12th tee as the green cannot be seen from the 15th tee. The green contour of the 15th is different from any of the other seventeen greens which have a remarkably wide variety of shapes and contours, obviously due to the amount of architectural redesign.

     During a round at GMGC, a player will see canting contour greens with run-offs #1, #5, #18, front to back, two-tiered greens, #2 and #9, side to side, two-tiered, #3, bowl shaped greens, #4, #13, free form, R.T. Jones greens, #9, #12, Maxwell undulations, #8, #10, #11, #14 and center spine greens, #6 and #18. #16 and #17 have a little of the above.

     The 15th is the only center depression green on the course. Its midsection is somewhat of a mirror image of the 10th hole at Aronomink which Ron Prichard described as one of Donald Ross' finest achievements. The positioning of the drive for the approach shot is not as important as one might expect looking at the orientation of the green. The center depression has a way of evening out approaches from either side of the fairway. If the pin happens to be on the right shelf, or the extreme rear, the distance control of the approach shot is absolutely essential.
 
     It is all but impossible to two putt to the right shelf from the front, or back, of the green. The same goes for the rear pin if the putt has to run the ridge from the right front. Before teeing off on the 12th, don't forget to peek!


Tee view:



Approach view:



From just over the green:



Now off to play Wissahickon at Philly Cricket before the restoration begins!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:24:33 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (15th hole up)
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2013, 05:03:18 PM »
#16.  Dogleg right par 4 (400 yards).



From the DE:

     Although a downhill drive to a slightly canting fairway, and an uphill shot to the green, the 16th hole is similar to the 15th in distance and shape (dogleg right). The cross bunker, 75 yards off the tee, was removed by Stiles in 1941. The far left fairway bunker was abandoned. The fairway played over a piece of the rightside bunker and swept much farther out to the left. A large black walnut tree, at the inside of the dogleg, created a curious playing characteristic to this hole from the 1950s-1980s. Drives had to be played to the left two-thirds of the fairway to prevent the second shot from being blocked by the overhanging branches. This unique feature was removed by the unsolved theft of the tree in the mid 1980s.

     The left greenside bunker was twice as long as it is today, possibly to prevent a ball from rolling up onto the # 17 tee. The depression behind the green was an enormous sand bunker. According to the Board minutes, Ross' 1927 recommendation to regrade the severe slope of the green was approved, but it does not appear that the job was done to his specifications, which was a side to side, two-tiered green.

     At least two designers, Stiles and Fazio, made recommendations to remodel the front of the green or the run-up, particularly so it might be seen from the tee shot landing area. None of these recommendations were approved.

     The ideal drive should be played just to the left of the right fairway bunker for the carom to the center of the fairway. The angle of approach to this green is also of little consequence. Although it does not look it, this green has three or four very deceptive pin positions. Blind or semi-blind greens have somewhat gone out of fashion in modern architecture but, obviously, Ross did not shy away from them as eight of the original greens were not completely visible.

     An architect of his era had to work with what the land gave him but he did favor higher ground for his green sites. Thirteen of the original greens were above the approach area.


Tee view:



Approach view:



From left of the green:



From just over the green:



We'll finish with two real good holes tomorrow!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:25:55 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2013, 10:17:42 PM »
Dear Lurker/and Joe,

No mention of the SEPTA train whizzing by every so often right behind the 16th green.

During my 2012 October match vs. the Philly ULC  my opponent, who may have been entirely misinformed, thought that the rail line might have been another problem which helped torpedo the idea that a certain "fanatic" member, Tom Paul, had of moving the entire golf club to Radnor.

Perhaps the lurker can clear this story up?

Malcolm


« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 10:38:30 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #90 on: May 31, 2013, 04:59:52 AM »
From The Lurker:
 
Malcolm:
 
The story of a potential move of GMGC to Ardrossan Farm in Radnor, and the specific reason it ended up not happening, is a long and involved one but I will ask TEPaul about it and relay it to you. Or better still just read what he said about it on Golfclubatlas.com in the Feature Interview section under his name about a year ago. As I recall his description of the whole thing was long and involved because basically that infamous and controversial Paul fellow is a long and involved windbag sort of guy. He once told me why he thinks that is so----he said he is just a free association kind of guy and for some reason the synapses in his fingers (typing) are directly connected to the synapses in his brain. He added he thinks that may be the only reason so many girls have loved him.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #91 on: May 31, 2013, 08:07:45 AM »
One comment about the 16th. The front of this green is more steeply sloped than appears to the naked eye. With a left front hole location, it is easy to putt the  ball  past the hole only to watch it gather speed and head back down to the fairway. Interesting to know that Stiles recommended  softening the front and the work was not performed.

John Shimony

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2013, 08:31:42 AM »
Thanks for honoring my wishes to produce a photo tour of Gulph Mills GC, Joe.  ;)  Very well done indeed.  

It's nice to hear of the myriad of changes the course has gone through while not having its character compromised by ill thought out alterations.  The Maxwell greens seem like an amazing feature.  Do any other local courses have any or as many cool Maxwell greens?  

I've not delved as deep into this tour as I want but I plan to give it a thorough study before US Open week so as to not embarrass myself in front of the Philadelphia GCA glitterati.  
John Shimony
Philadelphia, PA

Mark McKeever

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2013, 08:34:06 AM »
One comment about the 16th. The front of this green is more steeply sloped than appears to the naked eye. With a left front hole location, it is easy to putt the  ball  past the hole only to watch it gather speed and head back down to the fairway. Interesting to know that Stiles recommended  softening the front and the work was not performed.

Its about time one of Stiles' recommendations wasnt carried out.  He already destroyed all the top shot bunkers... >:(

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

David Amarnek

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #94 on: May 31, 2013, 08:39:43 AM »
I went on the Wayne Stiles Society web site and found his 9 page report to the GMGC Greens Committee (June, 1940) as well as their response:
www.waynestilessociety.com/pdf/GMReport.pdf
Interesting stuff.
Too bad so many of his recommendations (especially re. removal of the top shot bunkers) were approved.

Re. #15 and #16, as noted, they have some similarity.  I find the #16 green site to be much more interesting and challenging.  Big hitters who are tempted to cut the right corners on both holes will, most often, find considerable trouble.


Chris Clouser

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2013, 10:23:08 AM »
John S -

Maxwell worked on several Philly area golf courses.  At Pine Valley he did some work on the right side of the 5th green, the small green on 8 and the left green on 9.  He also did several greens at Philly CC.  Only a few of those probably are in tact as Flynn came back in behind him and redid some of those.  Also, there is Melrose, which was an original design with some input by Mackenzie.  Some of the routing is in tact, but I'm not sure how much of his original greens remain.  I would think the 17th green would be original, but beyond that I would be a little suspect.  He did some other work on a couple of courses that NLE as well in the area.  Maxwell actually maintained an office in Elkins Park. 

Also, he redid a couple of holes at Saucon Valley on the Old Course (11 and 12 I believe but the course may have changed the order of the holes since I last looked).
 

Joe Bausch

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (16th hole up)
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2013, 10:52:52 AM »
#17.  Par 3 (213 yards).

What a fine finish to the collection of par 3's at Gulph Mills, this one my favorite (a close 2nd being the quarry 4th!).



From the DE:

     Other than the addition of a lady's tee on the left (1990s), the ground design of this hole is original. As with the 16th hole, the playing characteristics of this hole have substantially changed with the loss of the large Hackberry tree at the front and to the right of the green (1990s). The tee shot had to be played straight to the middle of the green or from left to right to avoid the overhanging branches. The hole now has a very open look and shots can be played in from any angle. The original green was a good deal larger, flaring out on all four corners and possibly extending closer to the front cross bunker. The fairway extended over the cross-bunker to the far right corner of the green. A small, rear bank bunker has been abandoned. It is interesting to note that the unique tongue on the rear left corner of the green was original green space.

     This exciting, final par 3, plays less than its yardage. Tee shots played inside either corner of the green have a way of gently feeding toward the center. One of the biggest strategic considerations of this hole is the firmness of the ground in front of the green and the interesting upslope/downslope at the front fringe. If the ground is soft the ball has to be carried over the downslope. If firm, the ball should land quite short of the front slope so that it might run over it 'a la links golf.

     The front downslope also creates a very high shot value front pin as the tee shot is very difficult to get close and the chip or putt from short of the green, is equally hard to control distance-wise and direction-wise, if short on either corner. The more conservative option is to play to the middle or back of the green and putt back up to the hole.


Tee view:



From short of the bunker:



From just short of the green:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:28:01 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (17th hole up)
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2013, 10:57:25 AM »
I love the look of this green and can only imagine if it actually extends out to the corners like you said!

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Charlie Gallagher

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (17th hole up)
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2013, 11:17:24 AM »
This is a superb par 3 that ussually plays into a quartering wind coming from the right. The reverse sloped green's front ramp has a big influence on shots landing on it or running on the ground. It is quite easy to land in the left bunker, or to go over the back of the green. The last time I played the course, about a year and a half ago the hole was won with a birdie, hole location back center. Not a lot of Birdies on this hole.

John Shimony

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Re: Gulph Mills GC: a photo tour and more (17th hole up)
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2013, 11:22:00 AM »
Thanks, Chris.

I've known of Maxwell's involvement at Pine Valley and Melrose but figured not much would remain at Melrose.  I did not know he did work at Philly CC or Saucon.  Are the Maxwell greens at Melrose worth me sneaking on with my putter?
John Shimony
Philadelphia, PA

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