[Patrick_Mucci]

The game's growth tracked neatly with an era in which the one-percenters and the middle-to-upper middle classes prospered while involved in a ginned up economy driven by nearly unregulated Wall Street profiteers whose explosive success was dependent upon the huge numbers of customer/victims who bought into their giddy success.

Terry,

That's a croc of B.S. and just typical political class warfare propagated by liberals

The game's third phase of growth mirrored post WWII growth in America and had nothing to do with Wall Street or one per centers.
 

The Wall Streeters had a bad year: the rest will never be the same.  
I don't think the game will ever get back to the bubble years either.


Golf prospered fabulously for about 50 years after WWII and that prosperity had nothing to do with Wall Street.
It was Main Street, in every city and town, that fueled the growth of local golf in America.
It was Main Street that expanded membership in local courses that grew the game post WWII

Let's not also forget that the top1 % pay 39 % of the taxes and the top 10 % pay 71 % of the taxes, while the other 90 % pay 29 % of the taxes and the number for the top 1 % and the top 10 % continues to climb while the amounts for the other 99 % and 90 % continue to fall.
An inverted pyramid is the worst possible financial model and that's what you now have, and it's getting worse.
When you factor in unfunded pension and welfare liabilities for governments, disaster and/or collapse isn't that far away

If the game is to grow, the middle-to-upper class will have to be restored to their previous affluence. I don't see that happening.
I see a hot stock market "economy" and the rest just treading water.

Where else can you put your money ?
CD's ? 

An Anti-business atmosphere coupled with horrendous trade policies and a hostile tax environment drove businesses, first from their home state to a more friendly state, and then as all of the above got worse, overseas.
We will never recover until we embrace business, improve our trade and tax policies and bring business and employment back to the U.S.

The answer isn't expanding government and shrinking business, it's shrinking government and expanding business.

Belly putters?  Juiced golf balls?  Killer drivers?  
Not responsible for hurting the amateur game and unlikely to help grow it back.

In other words, this isn't about soul; it's just another popped bubble.

Poor decisions, many at the government level, led to these bubbles.

But let me ask you:.
Why weren't criminal charges brought against Jon Corzine ?
Isn't he one of your "Wall Street" "One Per Centers" ?

[Terry Lavin]

Let's also not forget that the one percenters are responsible for 90% of the hot air in this country!   

[Lyne Morrison]

Thanks Gentlemen for taking the time to think this topic through and respond. So many good and meaningful thoughts and with a depth of diversity that such a subject warrants. I agree with the overriding theme of the need to acknowledge, honour and guard the good that is inherent to the game.

When I began this thread I was unsure as to how it would evolve and held off from posting additional input to let thinking and comment run its course. The cultural differences in golf intrigue me. Some have fixed ideas about the game while others look with fresh eyes – yet I feel we have done very well with the journey of this discussion - (or am i a post or two too late)

So onto my follow up comment: My interest was sparked recently by a new development in Sweden that is accessible, encourages inclusiveness and offers something for most golfers from the entry level to accomplished. Take a look at the review prepared by Adam Lawrence here http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Arena-facility-makes-practice-social/2707/Default.aspx and the website and video here http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://golfarenan.se/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dvolkswagen%2Bgolf%2Barena%26client%3Dsafari%26hl%3Den (or google Halmstad Golfarena ). It looks like a whole lot of learning and fun is to be had within a sound environment.

I can't help but think what a super model this is and how it provides an alternate option for golfers who are tired of the time consuming and testing game that has been promoted in recent decades. Perhaps alternate facilities such as this would reintroduce some of the 'fun factor' that Jim Koppenhaver notes has been missing.

I expect we will always have several levels of golf - that's the nature of the game and its ok, but I also have a sense that within this Swedish model lies an option that fits contemporary needs well - one where a community is provided affordable recreation that is not only appealing, manageable and enjoyable but also falls within a framework that honours and supports the heritage of the game.

And in doing so it may just reintroduce an appreciation and understanding of the soul of golf to a new generation of golfers. I say well done to the architect and developer.

Cheers, Lyne

[Patrick_Mucci]

Lynn,

Sorry for the counterpoint, but sometimes Terry tends to politicize almost anything.

I don't know that it's important to grow the game.

Why is there a need to strive for universal participation ?

And, for whose benefit are we striving ?

Is there a need to grow bowling, tennis or lacrosse ?

It's a niche sport, one that's unique in that the mediocre to poor golfer can compete on the same field of play that the best players in the world compete on.

What other sport affords you that opportunity ?

Certainly not football, basketball or baseball, the most popular American games with the greatest TV exposure.

So why all the fuss ?

John Paul Newport wrote an interesting article a few days ago about the "conflict" or clash of "tradition" versus "convenience" ?

I don't want to make the game easier.

I want my foe to remain a constant.

As my abilities diminish, why shouldn't my scores ?

Why should diminished ability be propped up by artificial or high-tech means ?

Golf has shrunk several times before, with WWI, the Depression, WWII and recently.

The inherent lure and challenge of the game and it's elasticity will prevail unless the "me" generation dumbs it down.

End of rant 

[RJ_Daley]

Lyne, that is a great find, and link to demonstrate your thoughts about a more 'social' approach.  Here is another link to the photo page of the "Golfarena" Facebook photo pages:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Volkswagen-Golfarena/238591399496471?id=238591399496471&sk=photos_stream

Clearly, the soul of golf will continue to shriek or rant, or argue it out, over the very class warfare aspects that Pat and Terry tossed back and forth.  I think it is no coincidence that the word "social" is used in Adam Lawrence's written essay about Golfarena.  Given that the facility is in Sweden, and the 'social' programs platform of the country is oriented largely towards social participation and inclusion, it makes sense that they would come up with more ways for their citizens to enjoy this activity.  Just about every aspect of Swedish socio-economic measures exhibit a growing society, educated, secure, healthy, and a middle class that 'can' participate in the recreational activities of leisure time, such as this article describing participation in the 'Golfarena'. 

Pat's idea does seem to lean towards the notion that it isn't necessary that golf grow or be accessible to the many who might love it if they could afford it or had the time.  That point of view that expresses they aren't concerned that a dwindling number of people have affordable access to this form of recreational facility is widespread it seems in the stodgy and staid old money country clubs.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Pat is too concerned that the average joe finds little time for golf, or not enough money for golf, and that the average joe is underemployed yet working more hours for underpaid small benefits terms of employment, and has to be more concerned with falling deeper into that 47% category. 

Maybe it isn't a coincidence that one measure of the contraction or lack of growth in golf also follows the trend of the shrinking middle class, that follows the same trend that labor unions are becoming extinct along with wage and hour standards they traditionally bargain for those middle class workers to enjoy - whether they belong to unions or ride on the standards that were set; and all of that mitigates against any expansion of golf, or cultivating a soul of golf in the shrinking middle class, not having time or money to participate in the game. 

When one contemplates the 'soul of golf' and if there is a battle for that soul, I don't see how we can politely avoid the socio-economic factors that are involved with access and participation in golf, including the economic prospects for golf to exist at all, going forward in a dwindling resources world.

[Lyne Morrison]

RJ - thanks.
I like the inclusiveness of the model, the village green concept and the potential it provides to step beyond if one chooses to.
Cheers, Lyne

[Lyne Morrison]

Patrick - no problem and really I don't know if it is necessary to grow the game either. I would agree golf is a niche market and certainly it appears that you have ample problems in the US as a result of your particular style of growth.

I am much more interested in providing a game that is of interest for those who choose to play. Yours is but one type of golfing personality - the competitor - and by all accounts you thrive on this and it brings tremendous pleasure to your life - and that is a wonderful thing to be sure.

As you know there are varied cultures within golf and varied types of players - many in fact as Rich Goodale, RJ and others point out so well - and why not accommodate them in the sport of their choice via a different platform on occasion to that of the committed competitor?

Times have changed, there are many golfers who love the game but find the courses long, difficult, time consuming and/or expensive. Some years ago here the One Day Cricket formula was added to the annual cricket calendar, this sparked new interest in the game particularly from those who found the 4 or 5 day Tests a little tedious. Traditions remain but newer contemporary models of the game are also enjoyed.

I don’t think the odd alternate facility would impact the golf culture that you participate in – that is a world away. I do believe that we can facilitate those who are interested in committing to the values and enjoyment of the game in an appropriate manner that suits our times. One size does not fit all and that is why the Swedish model appeals - it may be sufficient for some, yet a stepping stone for others and it does not appear to be a crass commercial product. Aside from that it would be a lot of fun to design and build

In any case, well done on your recent Garden City success – that most definitely would have been fun.

All the best
Lyne

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick - no problem and really I don't know if it is necessary to grow the game either. I would agree golf is a niche market and certainly it appears that you have ample problems in the US as a result of your particular style of growth.

I am much more interested in providing a game that is of interest for those who choose to play.

Has the game not fulfilled that requirement for the last 100 years ?
I don't understand your objective.
The game has always been of interest to those who choose to play it.
It has a unique lure that's inherent in the game and needs no artificial gerrymandering to do so inthe future.
 


Yours is but one type of golfing personality - the competitor -

Not true, the "competitor" facet is but one facet of my golfing interest, and the beauty of golf.
An individual is not locked into a single facet of the game.
As much as I enjoy competition, I also enjoy the other facets of the game.
But, in every facet that I enjoy, I don't want to see the game dumbed down in the hopes of attracting a phantom participant.


and by all accounts you thrive on this and it brings tremendous pleasure to your life - and that is a wonderful thing to be sure.

It does, but so do the other facets

As you know there are varied cultures within golf and varied types of players - many in fact as Rich Goodale, RJ and others point out so well - and why not accommodate them in the sport of their choice via a different platform on occasion to that of the committed competitor?

The game already accommodates varied cultures and varied types of players, and it's done so for well over 100 years.

The difficulty of the game is part of, if not the core of,  it's appeal

Times have changed, there are many golfers who love the game but find the courses long, difficult, time consuming and/or expensive.


It's supposed to be difficult.
Are we to dumb it down for wimps ?
NO COURSE IS TOO LONG
Golfers have the choice of shortening the course by playing forward tees.
That would automatically reduce the difficulty you reference.
BUT, they don't do that do they ?  No, they choose the MORE difficult option.

The time consumption is a valid point.
The solution is simple but no one wants to impose the axe like stroke necessary to cure it.
And, the cause is from the "times have changed" crowd/culture..

Some years ago here the One Day Cricket formula was added to the annual cricket calendar, this sparked new interest in the game particularly from those who found the 4 or 5 day Tests a little tedious. Traditions remain but newer contemporary models of the game are also enjoyed.

Maybe at tiddlywinks, but not at golf.
"Newer contemporary models" equates to dumbing down the game.

What, exactly is the purpose of establishing "newer contemporary models" and whom, exactly, are they to serve ?


I don’t think the odd alternate facility would impact the golf culture that you participate in – that is a world away.


But competitive golf is just one form of golf I enjoy.
Why change any aspect of the game other than compressing time to play ?

I do believe that we can facilitate those who are interested in committing to the values and enjoyment of the game in an appropriate manner that suits our times.

HOW ?    By dumbing down the game ?    By making it easier ?  By emasculating the game ?

One size does not fit all and that is why the Swedish model appeals - it may be sufficient for some, yet a stepping stone for others and it does not appear to be a crass commercial product. Aside from that it would be a lot of fun to design and build


NGLA has been around for over100 years.

It remains a joy to play.... for fun, for competition, for socializing and just for the hell of it.

My opinion, FWIW, is that WIDTH and design incorporating width is the key

In any case, well done on your recent Garden City success – that most definitely would have been fun.

It was a gratifying round, but, it was a multi-faceted round.
In addition to playing with two low handicap competitors, also trying to qualify, I played with the surgeon who saved my life.
He and I have a special bond.
He's a wonderful human being in addition to being a highly skilled surgeon/physician/research scientist.
And, he loves golf and is a student of the game.
So, my round, while competitive, was also social, and that's the beauty of golf, it's not locked into one purpose.
It's multi-faceted.
You can be involved competitively and socially at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive.

All the best


You too

[Terry Lavin]

Quite right, Mr. Mucci, quite right:

"So, my round, while competitive, was also social, and that's the beauty of golf, it's not locked into one purpose.
It's multi-faceted."

I've found this to be true on limitless occasions, even with people whose political beliefs were opposite of mine.  Golf allows people to play, compete, socialize and find commonalities that might otherwise be hard to find.  I've had some fun times on the golf course with right wing, right-to-lifers who hang onto their guns and religion, despite our differences.  Seriously.  The game allows a rational soul to put that "stuff that divides" to the side and just have fun.

[Carl Rogers]

Soul??? Battle???  Isn't this all about the marketplace of golf? real estate, clubs, balls, maintenance??

[Mac Plumart]

Isn't this all about the marketplace of golf? real estate, clubs, balls, maintenance??

Not for me.

[Carl Rogers]

Isn't this all about the marketplace of golf? real estate, clubs, balls, maintenance??

Not for me.

Most Respectfully, Mr. Plumart,
The current agenda of the R&A, USGA, PGA, PGA Tour, Donald Trump, TW, Jim Nantz & etc (what ever they might be) at most has only a tangental impact on my modest golfing life.  If the game has an over supply of courses, then for me as the end consumer, that's great. ... more and better equipment options, less cost, more tee times.  The state of the game has never been better, .... for me.

[Lyne Morrison]

Patrick – you are a brave man referring to our national sport as ‘tiddlywinks’ but thanks for your opinion.

From a professional perspective the Swedish facility has merit.

I need to move on and focus on some work now.

Cheers, Lyne.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick – you are a brave man referring to our national sport as ‘tiddlywinks’ but thanks for your opinion.

I didn't refer to your national sport as "tiddlywinks" I merely used "tiddlywinks" as an example of a game where you're free to "amend" the game

From a professional perspective the Swedish facility has merit.

I need to move on and focus on some work now.

Everyone wants to change the game for their own purposes, but like the Constitution, the game needs little in the way of amendments.

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