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Steve_ Shaffer

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TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« on: May 13, 2013, 04:06:03 PM »
Are TPC Scottsdale, home of the PGAT Phoenix Open,  and its sister course , the recently renovated Champions, really  money losers ?

PGA Tour wants renovations but city needs more money from them:

www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/20130501scottsdale-tpc-spending-questioned.html?nclick_check=1
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Matthew Essig

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 06:56:12 PM »
What are the renovations that the Tour is asking for?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 07:02:49 PM »
From the article:

TPC improvements are scheduled to start in April and be completed by November 2014, said Brad Williams, who took over TPC Scottsdale as general manager in February.

The work will include new surfaces for the greens and tees, along with improvements to cart paths and irrigation systems. The clubhouse locker rooms, dining areas and meeting space will be expanded.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 06:44:04 PM »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

mike_beene

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 12:56:09 AM »
Sounds like an NFL build me a new stadium with more skyboxes or we will move to LA.
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Matthew Essig

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 07:20:27 PM »
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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Kalen Braley

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 06:38:32 PM »
For anyone who's seen the course before and after, was the $15 mill really warranted?  Seems like a lot of money, for that type of work.

Just wondering...for 15 million they could have had a brand new course no?

Kalen
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 09:58:35 PM »
A substantial portion of the money went to renovations for the club house.

I was there today and I liked the "church pew bunker" on the left side of 18 fairway. Here's a construction pic:



http://www.golfcourier.com/news/story/218580/the-7-coolest-changes-made-to-tpc-scottsdales-stadium-course/full_story.html
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:01:08 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Howard Riefs

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2015, 10:44:55 PM »
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 04:50:19 PM »
Here's a video from Joe Passov:


http://tinyurl.com/q7tegxq
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
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Jason Topp

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 08:35:13 PM »
Other than the change to 14 and the bunker on 18, these changes seem pretty meaningless.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 09:47:22 AM »
Here's Geoff Shackelford's take on the renovation with links to other articles:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/1/28/gates-open-on-tpc-scottsdales-15-million-renovation.html#comments
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jim Hoak

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 05:43:41 PM »
Just heard the announcer on Golf Channel say that the renovations were necessary, because the course was 30 years old.  Another stupid comment!
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jeffwarne

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 06:13:19 PM »
I normally am not a big antiwhite sand guy, especially if the sand is being imported anyway, but goodness that white sand looks bad in a desert.

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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
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Matthew Sander

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 06:20:20 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on January 29, 2015, 06:13:19 PM
I normally am not a big antiwhite sand guy, especially if the sand is being imported anyway, but goodness that white sand looks bad in a desert.



Agreed. In much of the U.S., you have to suspend disbelief a bit to accept bunkers as natural looking hazards. In these cases the color doesn't matter to my tastes all that much. However, in the desert, with exposed sand everywhere, the look is so jarring.

From my experiences playing in AZ, that seems to be one thing that most clubs get right.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 07:45:14 PM by Matthew Sander »
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2015, 07:33:00 PM »
Does the white sand v. natural sand make it easier to delineate a hazard v. waste area?
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jeffwarne

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2015, 07:40:20 PM »
Quote from: Jim_Kennedy on January 29, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
Does the white sand v. natural sand make it easier to delineate a hazard v. waste area?


Definitely Jim,
If there are rocks, scrub, natural color sand and uneven lies you're through the green,

and if your ball is perched perfectly on firm, perfectly raked, perfectly consistent, tour tested (for 2 years no less) sand...
you're in a hazard  ;) ;D ::) ::) ::)
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Matthew Petersen

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2015, 12:00:15 AM »
Was out there today.

Changes on pretty much every hole, some quite minor, some (4, 13-14) are almost totally new. It's fine, but even the new holes don't feel especially different. This course has always been pretty boring front nine with a pretty good back nine, 15-18 being especially fun both for tournament watching and just playing as the average hack.

Have to agree with Shack that if they took the time to renovate essentially every hole, it's a shame that 1-9 are still pretty forgettable.

The bunker sand is atrocious and I heard several people comment on how bright and weird it looked. Very unusual out here and it won't last, which is maybe the saving grace.
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2015, 12:04:23 AM »
Quote from: Jim Hoak on January 29, 2015, 05:43:41 PM
Just heard the announcer on Golf Channel say that the renovations were necessary, because the course was 30 years old.  Another stupid comment!

Assuming I heard the same comment, I'm not sure it's completely wrong. They did a lot of work and a lot of it wasn't all that interesting, but the biggest change in the way the course plays is that fairway bunkers were added / expanded / relocated to be more in play for the tournament guys. In that respect, the fact that the course was 30 years old does indicate why the old bunker locations were not so relevant anymore.
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Matthew Rose

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2015, 01:41:27 PM »
I think it would look fine if they'd left the color of the sand the same. I actually like a couple of things they've done. One is that the tees are surrounded by grass now instead of being isolated. I also never cared for the ring of dormant bermuda around the bunkers.

Having played the course once, I find I remember almost every shot I hit on the back nine, and very few that I hit on the front, which goes along with the theme of the front nine not being particularly memorable compared to the back. But when the course was built, most TV broadcasts weren't covering the front nine then anyway, so I guess they felt no need for "showcase" holes.


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Matthew Petersen

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2015, 01:51:39 PM »
Just a guess, but the ring of bermuda around the bunkers may well return next year. The course only reopened in November, so post-renovation they essentially seeded everything with whatever their usual winter blends are. There's really no bermuda out there right now except for on a few big spectator hills that they presumably didn't disturb during construction.

I'm not a fan of that look and maybe with the bright white sand they'll stick to overseeding completely around the bunkers in the coming years, but this year is a a bit of a special case.
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Philip Hensley

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2015, 02:00:05 PM »
Why the 250 trees added? Are they planted to separate holes for the normal public play or for strategic/penal reasons?
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Matthew Petersen

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2015, 04:13:55 PM »
Quote from: Philip Hensley on January 30, 2015, 02:00:05 PM
Why the 250 trees added? Are they planted to separate holes for the normal public play or for strategic/penal reasons?

I heard that figure but I sure can't figure out where they all are. Most must just be totally out of play in desert areas? Maybe to stabilize desert mounds and give them some definition beyond just being dirt hills.

Maybe they just removed some during renovation and put 250 back, many in roughly the same place?

There were some added in play down the right side of #11, but nothing else that I saw obvious. Keep in mind virtually all the trees around the course are small mesquite trees, perhaps a few small ironwoods. There are a handful of mature trees around the course (notably in play on 13, 15, left side of 11) but those all seem to have been left alone.
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Howard Riefs

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2015, 11:10:34 AM »
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Carl Rogers

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Re: TPC Scottsdale Renovations Dispute
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2015, 09:10:59 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on January 27, 2015, 09:58:35 PM
A substantial portion of the money went to renovations for the club house.

I was there today and I liked the "church pew bunker" on the left side of 18 fairway. Here's a construction pic:



http://www.golfcourier.com/news/story/218580/the-7-coolest-changes-made-to-tpc-scottsdales-stadium-course/full_story.html
I am not crazy about the Oakmont rip-off.  Why not just extend the pond? And bleed some sand into the pond on all four sides?
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