[Greg Tallman]

Pics from TD's Bay of Dreams here in Baja - Photos from one month ago (it has gotten worse). Sad to see this happen.

[Bill_McBride]

What has happened there?   That makes Apache Stronghold look like Augusta. 

[Greg Tallman]

What has happened there?   That makes Apache Stronghold look like Augusta. 

Pretty much done Bill. The group trying to purchase it has struggled lining up financing and they recently sold off every last bit of maintenance equpiment. I believe it has been since late last summer/early fall since the fairways have seen water. In fact if not for the rainy summer/fall we had down this way it would be far worse.

[Steve Burrows]

"Dreams" are indeed fleeting, I suppose.  Perhaps it could have been more aptly named the "Bay of Economic Realities," though that's not nearly as poetic or romantic.  It's a shame, too, as it appears to be a sad ending to what I had heard was a phenomenal golf course.

[Howard Riefs]

Very sorry to see this. Leaving in the pins is just a kick in the teeth.

[Greg Tallman]

"Dreams" are indeed fleeting, I suppose.  Perhaps it could have been more aptly named the "Bay of Economic Realities," though that's not nearly as poetic or romantic.  It's a shame, too, as it appears to be a sad ending to what I had heard was a phenomenal golf course.

Quite good yes but I think even Tom would agree that "phenomenal" might be a bit of a stretch. A shame either way.

[Dale_McCallon]

Greg,

Just wondering..is this happening at other courses in the Cabo vicinity?  Or was this just a poor business plan/location type situation.  I know very little about the background so if I sound completely clueless, I basically am.

Didn't Mickelson design a course down there that is gone as well?

 

[Sam Morrow]

Now that's minimalist, heck looks playable right now.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

Just wondering..is this happening at other courses in the Cabo vicinity?  Or was this just a poor business plan/location type situation.  I know very little about the background so if I sound completely clueless, I basically am.

Didn't Mickelson design a course down there that is gone as well?

 

Dale, There have been two courses that were completed open for play and then let go. Both are in the La Paz region which is well north of Cabo.

The business plan for Bay of Dreams was aggressive during good times and was, in large part, built around their on site air strip that was going to be extended to handle the largest private aircraft. After Spetmeber 2008 it was a tough sell to indivduals or as a project.

The other course to go under is Paraiso del Mar which is located on the peninsula in the bay of LaPaz. Hills course, not bad not great. Accessible by boat/ferry only (just a 5-10 minute ride). PLenty of real estate sold but they just could not make it after the downturn. HOA is trying to kee the course from being like Bay of Dreams but without a new owner it's a matter of time I'm afraid.

Mickelson was originally supposed to do the second course at Diamante which is now the third course and not going to be Mickelson from what I understand.
 
A Fazio course at Chileno Bay was all but completed in 2009 but still yet to open for play though they have somehow kept it alive for the most part. It would still require several million to finish it off as originally designed. If completed it would be a clear cut #3 in Cabo behind Diamante and Cabo del Sol Ocean. 

[Bill_McBride]

Now that's minimalist, heck looks playable right now.

Only a Texan........

[Emile Bonfiglio]

"Dreams" are indeed fleeting, I suppose.  Perhaps it could have been more aptly named the "Bay of Economic Realities," though that's not nearly as poetic or romantic.  It's a shame, too, as it appears to be a sad ending to what I had heard was a phenomenal golf course.

Quite good yes but I think even Tom would agree that "phenomenal" might be a bit of a stretch. A shame either way.

Time to return the name to Bay of the Dead.

[Greg Tallman]

"Dreams" are indeed fleeting, I suppose.  Perhaps it could have been more aptly named the "Bay of Economic Realities," though that's not nearly as poetic or romantic.  It's a shame, too, as it appears to be a sad ending to what I had heard was a phenomenal golf course.

Quite good yes but I think even Tom would agree that "phenomenal" might be a bit of a stretch. A shame either way.

Time to return the name to Bay of the Dead.

True... and ouch!

[Garland Bayley]

Now that's minimalist, heck looks playable right now.

Looks better than the course (Bear Valley) Slag Bandoon and Ken Hixson play every week while building the Grant and Harney courses.

[Thomas Dai]

Assuming the money were available, how long would it take to get a course in this kind of condition and in this kind of climate open for play agan? Weeks? Months? Would the greens, tees, fairways etc need re-seeding etc or would they recover pretty much of their own accord if the correct watering and care and attention regimes were applied?

Just curious as I recall being told that the desert courses in the Middle East could last for up to two weeks in the summer without water and still be re-coverable with proper care and attention but with no water for more than two weeks in the summer it was 'start all over again time'.

All the best

[Greg Tallman]

Assuming the money were available, how long would it take to get a course in this kind of condition and in this kind of climate open for play agan? Weeks? Months? Would the greens, tees, fairways etc need re-seeding etc or would they recover pretty much of their own accord if the correct watering and care and attention regimes were applied?

Just curious as I recall being told that the desert courses in the Middle East could last for up to two weeks in the summer without water and still be re-coverable with proper care and attention but with no water for more than two weeks in the summer it was 'start all over again time'.

All the best

This one is too far gone. As noted the photos are from more than a month ago and everything is far worse now. There would be no saving the turf that was once there.

The other course mentioned above, Chileno Bay, was let go to a far lesser degree than BOD and they were able to massage most of the holes back to life while only having to resprig three complete holes and portions of a couple of others. The last water the fairways saw at Bay of Dremas was probably a rain event in October. They kept watering the greens through the new year but stopped shortly thereafter so they have been without agua for 3+ months.

Bermuda responds a bit better in such situations (BOD was paspalum) as shown by one of the local private clubs that went through the summer of 2011 without water (June through September) on the fairways. They got water back on the fairways in October and it was not until about May/June of 2012 before things were back to normal. 

 

[Jim Johnson]

What has happened there?   That makes Apache Stronghold look like Augusta. 

Never mind Apache Stronghold, Bill, it was in way better shape (played last Wednesday and Thursday) than Black Mesa (played this afternoon).

[Jason Topp]

What has happened there?   That makes Apache Stronghold look like Augusta. 

Never mind Apache Stronghold, Bill, it was in way better shape (played last Wednesday and Thursday) than Black Mesa (played this afternoon).

I am very surprised.  Did they give an explanation at Black Mesa? 

[Jim Johnson]

Sorry Greg, didn't mean to threadjack...

My wife and I played Black Mesa yesterday afternoon. The course had a lot of winterkill - several greens were really hit hard this past winter including the 1st, probably the worst - and a large amount of dandelions covered several fairways.

This morning we played Cochiti. While I was lacing up my golf shoes in the parking lot before the round I got talking with two gents who were just about to tee off, and were loading up their 3-wheel push carts. I admired them for walking (we always cart on our golf vacations together) and they commented on golfing - and walking - Black Mesa this coming Friday. I mentioned that we'd golfed there yesterday and that the course looked a little worse for wear. The one guy told me that they had real low temps there this winter, into the minuses, and that they'd had to repair half a mile of piping.

I'd like to think that this summer will see a big improvement in course conditions, with some warmer weather (low 70's there yesterday). It was still very playable yesterday and we weren't disappointed at all including it in our itinerary. All in all, still a dramatic course and one we'll return to at some point.

[David_Elvins]

Greg,

When did the bay of dreams course open? 

[Colin Macqueen]

Dave,

As far as I can ascertain it was a 2010 opening ..... sic transit gloria as my old man used to say...sad.

Cheers Colin

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

When did the bay of dreams course open? 

Don't think they ever had a real "grand opening" but were accepting play at some point in 2009 which I believe was when I first played the course after visiting during construction during the spring of 2007

[Jim Franklin]

Looks firm and fast.

Shame about Black Mesa.

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