[Matthew Essig]

Imagine that a new rule was created that stated this:

A player should only be able to mark the ball when:
1) the ball is in the way of another player and the player asks for the ball to be marked and the coin moved
2) still in its own mark or
3) lift, clean, and place or winter rules are in play (more likely for mud to be on the ball)

My reasons for why this rule is a great idea:

1) SLOW PLAY (seeing players mark the ball when they are a foot away or re-mark the ball to fix the cheater line)
2) Eliminates the cheater line
3) Playing the ball more "as it lies"

So, would you support the new rule? Would you change the rule in anyway? How do you think the rule would change golf? Do you think the common golfer would support it?

[Dan King]

I would change the rule so that golfers play the ball down. Touching the golf ball during the playing of the hole should be very rare and should cost strokes in medal play and the hole in match play.

Cheers,
Dan King

The gashes I had given it smiled hideously, it would be impossible to putt. "May I put down another ball?" I asked meekly. Neither of them answered. Perhaps they were too sorry for me to say no. But they were not sorry enough to say yes. I putt the mutilated ball back down on the putting surface.
 --Michael Murphy

[Sean_A]

Imagine that a new rule was created that stated this:

A player should only be able to mark the ball when:
1) the ball is in the way of another player and the player asks for the ball to be marked and the coin moved
2) still in its own mark or
3) lift, clean, and place is in play because there might be mud on the ball.

My reasons for why this rule is a great idea:

1) SLOW PLAY (seeing players mark the ball when they are a foot away or re-mark the ball to fix the cheater line)
2) Eliminates the cheater line
3) Playing the ball more "as it lies"

So, would you support the new rule? Would you change the rule in anyway? How do you think the rule would change golf? Do you think the common golfer would support it?

I think that as long as there is a penalty for one putting into another ball on the green, this rule can't fly.  All sorts of odd things happen with putts.  I would hate to be penalized because I putted into a ball after being told it wasn't in the way -" in the way" can be a tough thing to judge.  Eliminate the penalty and I don't mind the rule change.

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

"Might" means everytime, would need replacing with "there IS mud"

[Bill Shamleffer]

Imagine that a new rule was created that stated this:

A player should only be able to mark the ball when:
1) the ball is in the way of another player and the player asks for the ball to be marked and the coin moved
2) still in its own mark or
3) lift, clean, and place is in play because there might be mud on the ball.

My reasons for why this rule is a great idea:

1) SLOW PLAY (seeing players mark the ball when they are a foot away or re-mark the ball to fix the cheater line)
2) Eliminates the cheater line
3) Playing the ball more "as it lies"

So, would you support the new rule? Would you change the rule in anyway? How do you think the rule would change golf? Do you think the common golfer would support it?

I think that as long as there is a penalty for one putting into another ball on the green, this rule can't fly.  All sorts of odd things happen with putts.  I would hate to be penalized because I putted into a ball after being told it wasn't in the way -" in the way" can be a tough thing to judge.  Eliminate the penalty and I don't mind the rule change.

Ciao

That is easily fixed.  Go back to the old "try to always putt out" rule.  Everyone gets to mark their ball when it initially gets on the green.  Then once one takes their first putt, they must putt out, unless doing so will result in stepping in the line of putt for another golfer.  Add to this that once the golfer does begin putting, no re-marking the ball other than in the circumstances when they must mark because continuous putting would result in standing in another player's line of putt.  This would speed up the game a bit, and would look better on TV.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I would much rather play with Dan King.
I recall his experiences of reducing the number of clubs in his bag, down to 10, 7, 5 and then eventually none, all the while getting to be more and more fun.

I'm back down to 6 clubs and never touch the ball or ever consider marking at our home course.
As a visitor I do respect the customs of the host.

cheers

[Josh Tarble]

I would like to see it changed that a player can only mark his ball once.  As soon as they replace it, they must finish out the hole without touching it. 

Would never fly though, because players are far too sensitive about someone stepping in their line.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would like to see it changed that a player can only mark his ball once.  As soon as they replace it, they must finish out the hole without touching it. 



That would:
 totally change match play
and/or return the stymie

Bad idea

Would never fly though, because players are far too sensitive about someone stepping in their line.

[Tim Johnson]

 In theory, it is a good suggestion but in reality, egos will kill this rule. Putting the pros aside, as they would never sign off on this "new"rule" as they are the ones who use the cheater lines and it actually probably speeds up play for them as they are good enough to hit it perfect and actually make the putt. The amateur spends just the same amount of time using it but not with the same sucess so we have to go through routine again for the 5 footer coming back.

I am always up for great suggestions on how to speed up play but it is much like hoping that the next politician we elect will actually work. Golfers are an interesting breed, high handicap or low handicap, we emulate what we see in public and certainly, what we see on TV. Years ago everybody complained about switching to soft spikes, then Freddy wears his new shoes and they cant keep them on the shelves. As long as the pros do it, we will do it. The examples can go on for days, guys using their hands to cup the rim of their hats ala Tiger, even on cloudy days. Plumb Bobbing. Cheater line. Mike Weir starts doing his new preshot routine, pulling the club back a bit and then resetting.......Monday morning, Joe Public(up here in Canada) does the same thing. Guy practising his swing and stops at the top and looks at his hands....wtf? trying to figure out if you have your glove on the proper hand??

I am probably wrong on this point but I dont remember pros just dropping their clubs in disgust years ago after a bad shot. Tiger starts doing it and now I am seeing it happen all the time on tour and on the local muni.

I appreciate all the ideas but my belief is to just stay on your playing partners, in a nice way, to pick up the pace. If you know them a bit better, then do it in a fun way.

A good friend(25 handicapper) is holding 2 clubs in his hand trying to decide which to hit....."Andy, which club can you top better?"

[Josh Tarble]

Pat,
True...I did not think of the ramifications for match play.  I do think it would help speed up tournament rounds and medal play. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Reminds me of the time about 1980 that I had a meeting with Jack Tuthill of the PGA Tour at a hotel near the Western Open.  Got there early, thought I would have some breakfast, and shortened the wait time by being paired with another single, an older gentleman.

We start talking golf and golf architecture and at one point he tells me he was in a pro am at Turnberry (Scotland) with Don January, who marked his ball one putter head length left of his real position, but replaced it on the mark without moving it back.  He putted out, but realizing his mistake before leaving the green, was charged with a one stroke penalty.

So, this guy goes on to say he was a terrible putter, so on the next hole- the famous lighthouse hole - he is 90 ft away from the cup, but marks it on the lip, putts from there for a three, declares his mistake before leaving the green, and takes 4, when it would likely be a 5.

As I am beginning to wonder about all of this, Tuthill sits down and says "Hi Sam, what are you doing here, you old goat?"  Turns out, I was eating with Sam Snead and they discussed how they changed the marking rules (I think adding the rule 1 about "the spirit of the game" based on that incident.

[Jim Franklin]

What would I do with all my nice ball markers?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
True...I did not think of the ramifications for match play.  I do think it would help speed up tournament rounds and medal play. 

Josh,

I think most have forgotten the Julius Boros incident when continuous putting was in effect.

After his first putt, it either came to rest in a pitch mark or encountered some impediment that would impact his next putt.
He asked the official if he could mark his ball.
The official declined his request.
Boros put his putter back in the bag, took out his sand/lob wedge, took two practice swings that resulted in huge chunks of turf being removed from the putting surface, and then the official quickly granted him his marking request.

Marking your golf ball doesn't slow up play.

Golfers are either slow, fast or average in their pace of play.

It's a mind set, not a physical act such as marking your ball.

If some feel that marking your ball slows up play, well, then let's prohibit teeing up your ball.
Just throw it on the ground and play it.

[Rick Shefchik]

Mud on the ball isn't the only reason why a player should be able to clean his ball (once) when he reaches the green. A ball played from a greenside bunker can pick up a lot of sand, making it almost impossible to putt accurately.

[Dan King]

Stop hoping for perfection from things that grow outdoors. If you want perfect conditions, play golf indoors at virtual golf courses. When you play outside, things like mud and sand exist and nobody needs special compensation to deal with mud. Got mud on your ball, tough titties, putt away.

Cheers,
Dan King

Golf is deceptively simple, endlessly complicated. A child can play it well, and a grown man can never master it. Any single round if it is full of unexpected triumphs and seemingly perfect shots that end in disaster. It is almost a science, yet it is a puzzle without an answer. It is gratifying and tantalizing, precise and unpredicatable. It requires complete concentration and total relaxation. It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening - and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented.
  --Robert Forgan

[Patrick_Mucci]

(seeing players mark the ball when they are a foot away or re-mark the ball to fix the cheater line)

I've never played with anyone who engaged in that practice and I've never seen anyone engage in that practice.

Iff the player is a quick player, I don't see that exercise, as foolish as I think it is, adding time to the round.

Pat,

Marking your ball in the context of Matthew's statement above slows up play.

As a kid attending the Colonial Invitational I used to seek out Julius Boros which seems strange. He is not the superstar athlete that might attract a kid, but I remember him as being a larger than life figure, who walked slowly, or with purpose, chain smoking, and quick to swing, not much of a preshot routine. At least that is what I recall. He was a pleasure to follow.

He didn't waste alot of time and was perceived as an amicable fellow

[Patrick_Mucci]

Stop hoping for perfection from things that grow outdoors. If you want perfect conditions, play golf indoors at virtual golf courses. When you play outside, things like mud and sand exist and nobody needs special compensation to deal with mud. Got mud on your ball, tough titties, putt away.

Dan,

We just disagree on this one.
In a medal play qualifier, I'm not going to play my mud laden ball as it is on the putting surface when every one else is marking and cleaning their ball.

I also think that there are times when conditions merit "touching" your ball.
Fire ants, bees nests and casual water come to mind.

[Dan King]

I don't think this is the first time we have disagreed Patrick.

I'm not saying you alone should unilaterally stop touching the ball. The ruling bodies should have nipped it in the bud. The game is not intended to be fair. Sometimes in a tournament you will be penalized from mud on golf balls, sometimes you will profit. The test of golf is how you will deal with the inherent unfairness. I miss that version of golf.

All those conditions, it should be up to the golfer. Does he play the ball where it lies or accept the penalty. I have no problem with golfers having that sort of choice.

Cheers,
Dan King

You are meant to play the ball as it lies, a fact that may help to touch on your own objective approach to life.
 --Grantland Rice

[rjsimper]

I have missed 4 inch putts before on wet mornings with topdressed greens. This is a bad rule suggestion.

Sure, it would speed up the game. But so would a rule mandating ready golf or all players in a group must tee their ball up simultaneously then take turns hitting theirs.

Impractical.

[Chris Cupit]

Just curious if anyone knows when the Rules first allowed balls on the green to be touched, marked and lifted?  I thought I heard that the ability to mark, lift and clean was fairly recent  (maybe 1950's) in golf's history.

[Michael Essig]

Imagine that a new rule was created that stated this:

A player should only be able to mark the ball when:
1) the ball is in the way of another player and the player asks for the ball to be marked and the coin moved
2) still in its own mark or
3) lift, clean, and place is in play because there might be mud on the ball.

My reasons for why this rule is a great idea:

1) SLOW PLAY (seeing players mark the ball when they are a foot away or re-mark the ball to fix the cheater line)
2) Eliminates the cheater line
3) Playing the ball more "as it lies"

So, would you support the new rule? Would you change the rule in anyway? How do you think the rule would change golf? Do you think the common golfer would support it?

I think that as long as there is a penalty for one putting into another ball on the green, this rule can't fly.  All sorts of odd things happen with putts.  I would hate to be penalized because I putted into a ball after being told it wasn't in the way -" in the way" can be a tough thing to judge.  Eliminate the penalty and I don't mind the rule change.

Ciao

That is easily fixed.  Go back to the old "try to always putt out" rule.  Everyone gets to mark their ball when it initially gets on the green.  Then once one takes their first putt, they must putt out, unless doing so will result in stepping in the line of putt for another golfer.  Add to this that once the golfer does begin putting, no re-marking the ball other than in the circumstances when they must mark because continuous putting would result in standing in another player's line of putt.  This would speed up the game a bit, and would look better on TV.

+1.  Once on the green, hole out your ball.  No remarking unless your opponent demands it - which he would do if you were going to stand in his line.  Eliminate the lines on the balls.

Also in this area, does it bother anyone that caddies help line up the player and then step away.  It happens a lot on the LPGA.  I think it is wrong.  If you are incapable of lining yourself up to hit a shot, you need to find another profession.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Just curious if anyone knows when the Rules first allowed balls on the green to be touched, marked and lifted?  I thought I heard that the ability to mark, lift and clean was fairly recent  (maybe 1950's) in golf's history.

Chris, I think it was earlier as the "stymie" had a distance caveat.

[Patrick_Mucci]

+1.  Once on the green, hole out your ball.  No remarking unless your opponent demands it -


That's ridiculous and changes the entire concept of match play.

Slow play has nothing to do with continuous or non-continuous putting.

which he would do if you were going to stand in his line. 

That's equally ridiculous as it now gives the player further away a distinct advantage in match play.

Eliminate the lines on the balls.

I'd agree with that, including from the manufacturer.

Also in this area, does it bother anyone that caddies help line up the player and then step away.  It happens a lot on the LPGA.  I think it is wrong.  If you are incapable of lining yourself up to hit a shot, you need to find another profession.

The problem is that the game has transitioned from a sport to entertainment that's centered around a sport.

I don't think it should be allowed.

[Matthew Essig]

When I stated exception 3: lift, clean and, place, I added the mud on the ball part. When the course is wet, a ball has a high chance of gathering mud. So if winter rules or lift, clean, and place is being used that day, a player may mark to clean the ball. The exception does not apply to balls that only have mud on them. When lift, clean, and place or winter rules are being used, marking would be like it is now.

Mud on the ball isn't the only reason why a player should be able to clean his ball (once) when he reaches the green. A ball played from a greenside bunker can pick up a lot of sand, making it almost impossible to putt accurately.

Makes a bunker more of a hazard.

...

I do not agree with the only mark it once then putt out because if a player approaches to 50 feet and leaves a 6 footer, a player that misses the green and chips on to the same distance will then be able to use the cheater line for the 6 footer, which might be the difference between making it or not.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mathew,

Your issue is the "cheater line" and the process that accompanies it.

I tend to agree and think that marking the ball in a linear fashion should be prohibited.

Ditto for the manufacturer.

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